Honestly I am not against modifying the map of AV if there is any data suggesting that this is the reason why allies are losing. But I really don’t think this can explain how the allies are getting camped in their cave… If the players were equally as good wouldn’t they be able to atleast stand their ground and kill hordes as much as hordes kill them?
You are looking too far, horde casuals don’t play AV anymore with 75 minute queues, you are mostly facing rankers. Alliances are not better or worse than hordes, but the current pvp population is extremely biased because of the queue times, simple as that.
I love this comment. This is why history is doomed to repeat itself.
This is so wild to me. You can actually go and look at the entire history of how AV played out, right now. It’s all documented yet you pretend like no one can know. I’ll admit it’s a little difficult to pull specific sources especially with classic dominating searches, but it’s out there.
As for me I played the game then, heavily. So I don’t have to rely on second hand information. This whole debate played out back then too. You can actually read the forum arguments.
They all boil down to the same thing they do now, Allies suck at PvP. This version allies won 60-75% of the time, and only won 50% of the other BGs at the same time. Everyone correctly concluded Alliance had a huge map advantage.
And then 2.3 came out and they added reinforcements as a win con. This meant that the rush strategy was dead, because horde actually went scorched earth, like we do now. It was a super fun time to play where PvP actually happened.
Allies hated it. They lost 90% or more of AVs. They cried on the forums exactly like today, with diagrams and maps about how unfair the rush to X point on the map is for nebulous, unspecific reasons. Horde told them the same thing Horde are telling them now, you need to change your strategy.
They didn’t. Then the Allies had a public ‘boycott’ of AV. They cried and got the cave moved back. I don’t remember it mattering at all, other than to give the Allies another crutch in an already hugely imbalanced map for them. But then they made it so that you had to take the objectives before you killed the end boss because they had some kind of buff. Pretty sure horde still completely dominated, though I quit the game sometime around here.
Where is this actually documented other than people on here claiming it was a certain way? Again you’re posting your own alleged 15 year old recollection here so it doesn’t carry that much weight.
It’s completely insane to me that anyone could look at this map and conclude that Alliance have a map advantage.
There’s actually a thread about it from yesterday near the top of the forums. With two links. I googled and found another earlier this morning but I’m too lazy to do it now. You can find it if you care to educate yourself.
It makes perfect sense. Your loss rate has absolutely nothing to do with the map. Nothing at all.
One of the links doesn’t even work…the other includes this blatantly false gem:
First of all, Alterac Valley has geographically favored the Alliance ever since its inception. This is just a fact. Stormpike Graveyard is the most fortified objective in the game as it is uphill and flanked by ridges from which Alliance can situate themselves to snipe assaulting Horde. It is followed by the Dun Baldar bridge, which is a true bottleneck as opposed to the Iceblood pass because it’s a bridge . You can’t go around it. You will fall.
(1) If Horde establish the SHGY choke, Alliance literally can’t even reach the ridge behind SPGY, but Horde can. This terrain feature has the opposite effect he’s implying.
(2) SPGY can be attacked from several angles.
(3) The DB backdoor exists.
Now maybe it is true that a dev went on record stating that Alliance won 75-80% of AVs back then (the link given to support this claim doesn’t work). Even if that’s true, that doesn’t mean the map favors Alliance. It may just mean that the map as Horde at the time played it favored Alliance (it’s also possible things like the DB backdoor didn’t actually exist then). Horde may just not have used their natural advantages on this map back then.
If Ally are being camped i their GY, then the issue is not the map, its the players.
SHGY is a very easily defensible position with 2 evenly matched teams. Horde spawn miles away Ally should, all players being equal, decimate the horde at that gy in a stand off.
The inability of ally to ‘jump off the back as in ibgy’ also means they shoud have no option but to defend when pressed, rather than run away.
SHGY is easily defensible from the north (i.e. from Horde perspective), but the approach from the south is wide open and you rez into a choke.
Also there are times when the fight is just lost and those rezzing are completely outnumbered. So where Horde have options, the Alliance just die and then have to spirit walk if Horde don’t cap the GY. It’s not like there’s never been times when Alliance have gotten to IBGY and Horde have been able to escape rather than get spawn camped.
we do it to farm some honor while waiting on 30min mark. allies were doing it for hours on end literally to just grief and nothing more at all. it is not hordes fault you guys completely give up so were bored until 30min.
You may actually have something there, long queue time loses
the attention of someone just wanting to pop in a game for giggles and what not, too many other more easily accessible casual things you can chose from that dont require waiting a long time.
And im not leaving an instance or what not for a BG pop.
This is too much. If you seriously meant this, the Horde could easily bring it about by just standing around waiting for that to happen. Funny that they aren’t taking that opportunity.
Fine I will stop Pvp’n. Enjoy your even longer que times. it is amazing how ignorant you are. I played Horde on Private server to PVP because every battleground favors the horde in vanilla. The only advantage the Alliance have is Dun Bal’dar which has been broken now because of the Back Door entrance the horde loving Devs created and refuse to correct at the South Bunker.