Nothing is more disheartening in this game than having a group of people deplete your 15 and turning it into a 14. What’s wrong with a 14? No one wants to do a 14 because there’s no ilvl upgrade for it in the vault so you might as well do a 15!!!
Do you know how hard it is to get into a 15 when you play a class/spec that brings nothing to the table?? It’s impossible, a life filled with “decline” or “delisted”
special shoutout to the timer. may it be gone too.
I think removing the depletion is fine. It might even encourage more people to do M+ so they don’t feel pressured. 
If you’re not good enough to do a 15, maybe a 14 is more your speed?
Nothing was more disheartening than the +15 DoS I was in where I, the tank, was top dps at 10k dps. The runner up was a hunter with 8k and a mage who was 5k.
We also got Wo almost every time even though I asked multiple times for Urh. They just don’t know what they are doing.
We also wiped on Manastorm because no one was soaking the beam, people were standing in the laser that passes through and getting stunned, and not knowing how to place the big purple circle.
I laughed in chat and the Mage, who had 5k dps, blamed my route and tanking ability then kicked me from the group.
Am I surprised he was also from QT? Not really.
I was kind of opening up to the idea of keys not depleting, but nah these completely incompotent players need to taste failure. They were clearly not ready for a 15 and was carried there by valor farmers.
Considering I have KSM I’d say do your research. speaking more of when someone else ruins your key, was doing SD and the tank didnt pop naaru on last boss causing us to wipe and the key to deplete
That isn’t the flex you think it is.
Wayyy too many of those kind of people listing keys!
As for depletion: put on your big boy pants and run it again. Everyone who does keys depletes keys. It happens. You built a bad group. It really isn’t the end of the world. Build another. So many people think they should only (buy) get a 15 key once and have one forever. No thanks, I’m gonna pass on people just relisting their key til they get the free carry.
I mean I can think of 10 ways to recover from that without a wipe off the top of my head. An entire cov can bypass the punishment of that. So for that to be a wipe yeah depletion seems fair
SD has been nerfed so much that if you depleted from wiping on the last boss, it means there were a lot of other things that went wrong. The timer is so forgiving. You probably ended the run with 20 deaths.
If you depleted your 15 key you’re either
Too hard to carry
Bad at picking classes to fill a group
Bad at vetting players to feel that group.
I can give you some pointers that I do when making groups.
Don’t pick the highest io players all the time. Usually high IO would be a great thing but if you really want to time a key, you want to find players that also really want to time that key. So if you’re given two warlocks with 2600 IO each but one of them has only a 14 mists completed while the other one has timed a 16. Take the warlock with the 14 because they’re less likely to leave if things take a bad turn so long as they time it.
Pick classes that have good synergy together. Warriors, hunters, and rogues for example go really well together and demon hunters, mages, and warlocks go really well together. It’s tyrannical week so pick classes that are going to perform better when it comes to single target as you don’t want long drawn out boss fights. Also make sure you get a venthyr if you need one or a Kyrian depending on what dungeon you’re doing.
Inspect gear right off the bat. You’d be surprised how many people still don’t have double legendary or 4 pc and kick them if they don’t have it. It’s not nice but you really want to time that key, they need a 4 pc.
Bring food buff for everyone and be a superstar during the run. Sometimes you get easy runs and sometimes you get hard ones. Always expect the worst.
I say most of this because I’d say a huge chunk of people in the LFG tool have absolutely no idea what they’re doing when making groups. I fail more keys when I join one than when I make my own. It’s not because I invite the high io players either, it’s just knowing what to look for. High IO isn’t always best because those people have no inclination to finish the key. Another piece of advice is that if you have a 16 mists key, try it out on a 16 first so that you have two different chances at timing it.
I always run keys at +11 or a 16 instead of a 10 or 15 for this reason.
Yes! Why are we doing 15 keys with DPS that act like they’ve never done that dungeon before. I get the same thing with the second boss in halls of atonement. You’re supposed to destroy the gargoyles with the stomp and you have DPS running in the middle of nowhere.
Yea remove key depletion, also make mythic raids as difficult as lfr and also make it thar you only need to run 1 mythic 0 to get 3 slots of ilvl 278 gears on vault please.
This is so dumb lol. Mythic+ is already easy af. Dont ruin it by making it even easier.
Not all players want to be treated like spoiled babies.
A friend pugged a mots with a tank that was marking and trying to tank the fox. Had to be trolling but still, it’s gotten ridiculous.
I haven’t seen that but I did have a Dk using sloppy hands and pulling the Fox into a group of melee. It’s like common sense that you shouldn’t do that…
Beats the whole purpose of keys then.
I mean, sure, then 25’s will become the new normal, but top players will then be pushing 35’s and so on.
This would kill almost every incentive for actual bad players to get better. But if they don’t care about getting better, then it won’t make a difference whether or not time is present or removed.
If they wanted to get better, we wouldn’t see as many nonsense threads.
Did you take a moment to explain it to them?
Or are you disappointed they haven’t run it enough times to just “know”?
Considering you can largely skip most mechanics probably up until around 8 or so (like straight up phase bosses too quickly - especially on fortified). Or the fact that each key you get is rng, so you could push a +5 DoS, then not get it again until you are at +15.
So you really can’t “practice” keys. You are very unlikely to get invited to a 15 w/o your own key as a dps who doesn’t have KSM.
Bit of a tangent, but honesty I think M+ needs to go 1 of 2 ways:
Keys go away entirely. You can select your dungeon level manually with no restrictions other than having to have progressed up to that point successfully. Whether or not you’d have to do that per dungeons or just have doing a +15 unlock all +15s would be up for debate. Whether or not you could pug into higher levels than you’ve unlocked would be up for debate.
Keys stay, but ALL members’ keys are affected by the outcome of the run, and starting an M+ run requires everyone present to have at least the keystone level being used (not necessarily the same dungeon’s key). You can no longer pug in to +15s while holding a +11 key. Suddenly, pushing your own key becomes relevant to more players, and the success of any given run means something to everyone, so it’s no longer just the group leader taking on the risk of depleting their key. Additionally, while all keys can deplete regardless of level, your key will only upgrade when successfully completing an equal or higher key. (1, 2, 3 chesting would play into this as well. Finishing a +13 while holding a +15 would not upgrade the 15, but if you 3 chest the 13, 13+3=16, so the 15 would get +1 and become 16.)
The way I see it, the whole progression of pushing your key is meaningless as things currently stand. Most people just spam applications to what they WANT to run without a care in the world about their own key.
So tl;dr either get rid of keys, or make keys matter to everyone.
You realize it was a +15 right? I shouldn’t have to go over every boss mechanic at that key level. I shouldn’t tell them how to play their own class to do more dps than the tank.
If you come into a 15 without knowledge, it is entirely on you when people race to hearth. No one owes you anything else.