Nobody that’s been replying to you these past few days could be described as a person prone to giving the atrocities of Garrosh and Sylvanas the benefit of the doubt. So no, there’s no double standards going on here.
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Yeah, I really like Anduin. Varian was such a war monger for most of his life. The Legion cinematic where he says he regrets this, and wishes he had been more like his son, was a really moving moment for me personally. It made Varian more likeable, and endears ppl to Anduin when he doesn’t even show up in the cinematic, save for the portrait inside the compass. Anduin is a good character that has depth, and anyone who says differently is a bad story teller.
He’s going to be fine, killing him or just turning him into a pseudo-villain would be akin to like, putting down a perfectly healthy golden retriever. It’s not gonna happen.
Anduin is supposedly going to become less naive and peacemongering after the events of SL so for once in years I’m actually looking forward to the character’s development.
I thought you were looking forward to some hot banshee on priest action? 
He’s probably referring to me. Because I like a fictional character. He’s assessed and made broad generalizations that I’m probably a bad person because of it.
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IFrankly? I don´t even think he´s so against this for actual religious purposes… I think he refuses to see characters heavily affiliated with the light being portrayed as antagonists and/or villains because this infringes with the “muh perfectly perfect goodie two shoes Alliance real protagonist of muh game”… no more and no less.
And I´d believe the bit about Turalyon IF Shadows of the Horde wouldn´t have had all those extra miles in trying to buffer his actual responsability on the torture events (I mean it´s “hard” to take seriously his portrayal as “antagonical” when the devs basically made him WoW´s version of TDK Jim Gordon and the Orc mother a proxy for the Joker).
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This is the problem with Wow’s writing these days. The writers are far too much influence from real world institutions such as Religion and Politics and keep bringing it into the game.
The Light shouldn’t reflect christian any more that it should reflect Islamic or any other faith. It is its own thing and whether it ends up being a bit evil also doesn’t remove the good it has done in the world of Azeroth.
I mean with out the Naaru and the Light purifying the Sunwell the Bloodelves would have died out.
Without the naaru Illidan would have killed us all in outland and the legion would have then wiped him out.
Without the Naaru the Draenei would have all been turned into demons and we all would have been killed.
Regardless of what blizzard does next the Light will always be a force for good more than evil. Just because people draw non existent parallels to organised religion doesn’t change that.
I would also point out that the only race that is currently in close proximity to anything involving the naaru currently and the Light is the Blood elves. They have been sucking up so much of the naaru light juice that they have ended up light forging themselves. There is a good chance that if the light becomes bad they will be too…
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Or … and bare with me here … the conflict in a Light based expansion comes from the fact that one’s conviction in their cause; rather than the cause itself. Or whether that cause is the right form of Light reverence or not. And this factor also seems to extend to Naaru, who are thankfully not a hive-mind. With even A’Dal giving the Naaru equivalent of “no she’s crazy and she needed to go down” about Xe’ra.
The Light has always had the capacity for darker shades in the form of those that practice it, and the fanaticism that can be prompted from it. So even if there are darker aspects of the Cosmological force itself, its not necessary to villain bat the whole thing. God, you remember when writing could have nuance?
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You’re talking about the Scarlet Crusade, one of the least nuanced antagonists Blizzard has ever made.
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Touche. But it does mean that the Light doesn’t give a crap about what you do with it, so long as you have convictions in some true path while doing it. So conflict between various interpretations of that true path could be interesting. And while in a Light based expac where races like the VElvs, AU Mag’har, and Forsaken can be allowed to subvert expectations of them (proving they are capable of some virtues), the genuinely most interesting prospective conflict in such a scenario is the Draenei/Lightforged vs the less “nice” visions of the Light.
Right but shouldn’t it be the Naive teenage boy who trust the “magic bones” he has and the light to essentially make all his decisions for him to go down the path of being manipulated by it.
Rather than the 10,000 year old Paladin who has seen the Zealously of the light and how it views anyone who doesn’t follow. The guy whose wife is a living testament that the void isn’t Inherently evil. The guy who literally warned that teenage kid not to trust blindly in the light and to make decisions for himself.
Its about time Anduin actually falls from grace and becomes as you stated a more nuanced charcter. He is set up perfectly to become a puppet of the light if it were to somehow saves him from the jailer.
Y’mean the same guy who allowed his wife to be imprisoned by that same fanatical light? Has repeatedly shown concern that his Void wife might one day lose her marbels to the countless voices in her head. And a man who has seen quite literally nothing but warfare for the last 1000 years has few if any reason reason to not see the races of the Horde as the evil monsters he’s faced countless times in battle; when we’ve done absolutely everything to prove that we are in the short time he’s been around us. Let alone having reasons to trust us. Who openly stated he’d kill Faol the moment he saw him, as he perceived him as a twisted perversion of his mentor’s memories. And don’t you dare bring up Legion, when the Horde was so inconsequential in that expac that he didn’t even know we had Paladins until Arathi (despite Liadrin being on Argus). A notion he’s enraged by?
He is also politically backed by the House of Nobles, one of the very few Alliance groups that haven’t been whitewashed into sterility … yet. A Dreadlord has his trust and ear. And he’s current High King, with like 90 percent of the Peaceniks away on both sides … conveniently. So, while I get the kneejerk reaction for Anduin to walk that dark path … I get the feeling “The Golden one claiming a Vacant Throne” is more primed for that. Provided the Darkness he’s bringing isn’t just installing Dimmer Switches in SW castle so he can see himself glow.
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You mean when she first started playing around with the Void and was struggling to cope with it. Before he understood that it wasn’t as evil as Xera made it out to be?
Did I say that he wouldn’t still be wary of the Horde and not seek to restore the Alliance kingdoms? This doesn’t mean he needs to be manipulated by the Light to do this nor is he inherently evil for wanting to take back alliance Lands from the Horde.
Because he had heard stories of the Forsaken and had reasons to distrust them until he realised that it was still his old friend. At this point he also warned Anduin not to simply blindly trust the light.
The fact that there are Paladins doing Sylvanas’s bidding yeah I would be shocked as well especially after Teldrassil.
So what? do you think he is going to be manipulated by them some how, the man who has faced down Demon lords and treated with multiple alien races during his time in the nether. He is also a hero of the people and has their support does that mean all the alliance civilians are bad guys as well?
The issue is he never took the Title of “High king” only the position of Supreme commander that he was bestowed by Anduin. so he never claimed anything, it was freely given. This line could also be in reference to Anduin taking the throne from his father. Or Calia taking back her birth right we Don’t know.
Again your ignoring everything that Happen in Legion and the short story that showed him how Zealous Xe’ra was and how he had already learned not to go down that path.
Anduin has yet to learn that lesson and Tirion tried to even teach him that.
As the resident Blood elf fangirl -the only one left in this place-, I´m quite sure this is false. The Belves survived in worst conditions with NO Sunwell and NO Light for 5 years, and after they merely got the “how to make the stupid Light function when I NEED it, not when it feels like it” manual for massive military purposes.
The Light is passively eroding the Fel influence, but apart from that? Nothing else. Belves and Helves are still pretty much arcane junkies taking their “fix” from the arcane portion of the Sunwell, and the golden eyes are NOT any type of Lighforging but merely a show of high “devotion” to the Light in some individuals as per Word of God in BfA (if Sunwell were Lighforging elves then even Veeresa would be sporting golden eyes by now).
I´m talking about the Light ignoring the High Elf priests while they got massacred by Arthas (children included) while it continued to function A-ok for individuals like Sir Zeliek.
That said everything I needed to know in regards to the moral stance (or lack of thereof) of the “Light”.
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I noticed that his response to Xe’ra was not nearly as black and white as people make it out to be; and that his lesson generally is that one’s will should not be discounted when it comes to devotion to the Light. That does not however mean he values everyone’s wills the same, least of all a organization of races that he has no reason not to believe are evil monsters given his own life experiences. Did he value the will of the Demons?
Truth be told, I expect that Turalyon is the one referred to as “The Golden One”. Just as I was pretty darned sure Ogmot’s Laughing Shepherd was Sylvanas. However, even if it is I expect nothing from Whispers made about Alliance characters. They’re way too whitebread for that. Besides, should it turn out to be Calia, it will just be ANOTHER excuse to villain bat the Horde (because for reals, she’s really a Horde character) … and if its Anduin I expect Blizz to leave MASSIVE doors open for the Alliance faction to heavily disassociate from any grey that comes from that. Can’t ever risk infringing on that flawless shine for even a moment after all.
Look to be honest their handling of the Whole Anduin arc in Shadowlands has been badly done. The fact that they need to point out that he is super mind controlled and that he has no control over his current actions is bad faith by the writers. Where they should have kept his mind control a secret and not eluded to the fact that he had denied Sylvanas attempts to turn him. We might have had an Alliance character doing something bad again but Blizzard couldn’t even let us have that.
Its why when he comes out of this experience I want him to be dark, I want him to view everything with a level of disdain. I want him to fall back and rely of the light so much to protect himself that he becomes its puppet willingly.
Look I get why you’d want that as he is a beloved alliance hero from the Alliance past. That Horde players are owed a popular alliance leader going down the Dark path rather than one the Majority of the Alliance don’t care for. However doing this won’t benefit the story as all that will happen will be Anduin will save us all by stopping the fighting again and make us have some stupid forced treaty again.
The Alliance will get its Holier than thou high king back and the Horde will get the same back lash they always do for fighting the war.
Nah, I’m fine with the Alliance being antagonists, my problem is this villain bat the Light and every major Light user route Blizzard is going.
Everything you said just proved my point, and you’ve indirectly admitted you consider Catholicism akin to a disease or disorder.
Just because you and other people have a prejudice based on past experiences doesn’t justify that prejudice. Hypothetically, if I had bad experiences with the Japanese Yakuza or Muslim terrorists, would I be justified to smear everything similar by association? No.
I wonder what would happen if you applied those standards to another religion?
I disagree with people who left the church, but I don’t hate them. I do have a problem with people who turn around and single out the church for one-sided criticism as you have done… especially when coupled with the double standard that tries to make all or some certain religions protected groups who can’t be criticized (like Islam).
I’m starting to think this sort of issue is why this villain-batting is happening; certain writers are using the story to push their personal views or vent their prejudices.
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That seems rock solid. No room for misunderstanding there. You should use your inference to form strong negative opinions of others and avoid looking for any alternate interpretation of the text you drew your inference from. Or don’t do that.
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This isn’t just for Thadeus, it’s for anybody or nobody. Okay, I’m going to weigh in on religion as it relates to World of Warcraft. Feel free to listen or don’t.
It DOES NOT.
Any parallels you see are the lifting of themes and aesthetics for the sake of sotry telling, or they’re coincidental.
The Light in Warcraft should be judged by both its portrayal in game, and the authorial intent stated by the developers. And to the best of my understanding, the Light offers no moral guidance, enforces no code of ethics, adheres to no D&D style alignment chart and does not discriminate against evil people.
Besides, the reason they won’t hit Anduin with the villain bat has nothing to do with him being a priest, and everything to do with the sunk cost fallacy of his ascendance. They have sunk SOOO MUCH time and effort into bringing Anduin up from a little boy to now being a little man, they have pushed so many characters out of the way for him, including casually murdering his father just to give him some pathos. Whatever plan they have for Anduin is one they’re going to see through and I don’t think it’s a plan to kill him as a villain any time soon.
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I said indirectly because when I pointed out Luxio spoke of being a “recovering Catholic”, as if Catholicism was a disease or disorder, Luxio didn’t deny it but tried to justify it and pointed out others who do the same. Would this be tolerated if it was another religion being treated this way?
You made some fair points about the Light though. Not sure how I’d feel about Anduin getting villain-batted… though he’s currently mind-controlled or possessed, not villain-batted.
By the way, what do you think about the rest of my comment?