*Please Delete This Thread*

People arguing this is fun or engaging are weirding me out; do you just like to argue?

3+ months to become viable is too long, it negates the desire to even bother before Slands and that is NOT a good thing for anyone, the players or Blizzards sub numbers.

They cores should be farmable via visions, it would still require plenty of time and have a soft cap this way, but dedicated players or people who want to main swap completely would be able to do so realistically. Personally, I’ve been debating gearing my rogue or enh shaman but everytime I look at the essences and cloak…I change my mind. And I’m far from a casual player.

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What? Do you actually think this stuff is going to be implemented?

Yeah it has nothing to do with the massive focus on garisons, weird af story and massive class pruning and everything to do with easy catch up :joy:

So it started with less and ended with less. Sounds awesome. People were so excited for endless grinds that they came in droves and stuck around because those grinds were so awesome :joy:

Again you pick and choose when it suits you. WoD was bad because of the story, not because of lack of content now? Spoiler, easy catch-up means lack of content.

Keep adding your emojis though. Gotta distract from the parts where you contradict yourself.

Says the king :joy:

Eh they’re just fun. You get that easily distracted?

Using subs is fairly baseless.

I mean MoP lost subs the whole expansion yet it’s paraded as the best or 2nd best on this forum and the epitome of class design.

Ummm not really? It’s actually pretty important. If nobody is subbed it’s not good for the game.

Every expansion loses subs throughout. The biggest drop yet again is when they left siege for over a year.

Regardless it still started higher and ended higher than bfa or legion. Endless grinds aren’t bringing people back or keeping them.

But trying to correlate specific game design features based on subs isn’t really that useful of a task.

TBC has the sharpest rise in subs. Maybe it was because single difficulty raids, single lockout systems, no transmog, and extensive per character attunements were the reason?

Or maybe it’s blood elves?

Or arena?

Or none of the above? Or all of the above?

Did MoP lose subs because of too much homogenization? Monks? Dailies? Story?

You can make arguments for basically anything.

Back to TBC and it having the most massive spike of subs over a whole expansion ever. How much effort would you need to put into a fresh 70 to get him caught up to your main raiding Sunwell?

With or without guild help?

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Because they haven’t played for: 2 years. Imagine if you were in line for 2 years, and someone comes along and is right behind you in 3 weeks.

That is a horrible analogy. First of all, the legendary cloak came out this year in January. Second, it is 13 weeks starting today (not counting the time to rank the cloak to 15 first).

So, they haven’t played for 13 weeks, 3 full months, and a person who has played every week has an 8-12% power advantage over them. 13 weeks, over 3 months. It is beyond acceptable.

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Of course it started higher. Because Wrath and Cata were successful. MoP and WoD were not. Millions never came back for Legion.

LOL, you call Rank 2 TD right now as a 8-12% power advantage? And 4+ TD 13 weeks from now. What lol.

Oh, they’re 50 corruption behind? I thought they were 39, then again I can do math.

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What corruption level do you think DPS use at end game? Nice math there Professor :clown_face:.

Lol just play the game

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To an extent this is true. Still though if an expansion has crap subs clearly something is wrong. You can also compare it to other expansions to come up with some hypotheses. Yes they are all hypotheses but there is still value in them. Better believe blizzard makes hypotheses, why do you think they introduced infinite grinds? Do you think they’re looking at bfa and contemplating what impact they had?

Quite a bit… Still a more user friendly than most other MMOs that ever existed before it. There’s a reason why wrath continued the trend towards catch up and ease of entry while maintaining the sub increase. Didn’t start to drop off until there was another drought and they introduced Ruby sanctum which was meh.

Lol dude mop was pretty successful until the endless siege :roll_eyes: regardless, both still more popular at the end of their massive droughts than bfa was one month into it. Keep pretending like bfas failures are anything but its own.

MoP was the slowest selling xpac of all time and the first time WoW lost subs en masse. But yeah, “successful.”

You think WoD losing 7-8 million subs didn’t impact Legions subcount? Ok.

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15 seconds googling “wow sub graph” shows MoP had a relatively steady decrease all expansion long not a drop at the end.

It actually had a final uptick value right before WoD hit.

But I get it. It’s a game of rationalizing why we think aspects we like or dislike are helping or hurting the game and guessing about it’s impact on the playerbase at large while ignoring any macro outside of game factors.

There should be a way to get cores. Maybe not all the cores to catch up in one week, but as you stated the further weeks we get into the longer it takes alts or new players to catch up. My shaman is vastly weeker than my other characters because he’s got 20 less corruptions resist. That’s huge

funny that it’s only the “core” the concern but it’s not a concern that the system for people coming back or alts:

  • Research gated behind mementos
  • The false catch up mechanic where rank 8 to 11 you need more books than your spec can handle unless some fotm spec (again gated by point 1)
  • CV source is limited to one activity in game at this point in time and this expansion is done it’s a lame excuse.

The “false” catch up mechanic.