That is a solid counter argument.
Theoretically thats true, if you are playing in full premade group, but even then its not completely logical. Starting from a specific point key progression is much similar to Mythic Raiding, where the fail of one single player results in a bricked key (or in raid to a wipe). One stun/kick overlap, one body pull, one wrong pressed healing cooldown during a boss fight.
I totally ok that those mistakes are that punishing, but compared to raid if you wipe on a Mythic boss you dont get back to the Heroic version of it before you try again.
Why? Because you are done progressing that fight. It is not the same challenge anymore as it was during progression. But, at least for the people doing anything above 10, the fun thing in this game is progression.
So what do you do? In full premade groups you do you “homework keys” where nobody has fun. In pugs you leave and queue random for the same keystone level that you just did. So you don’t even do what Blizzard intended with the system and go one key level lower. Why would you if there are keys listed in the group finder that would give you score.
The only person that looses in the system is the keyholder, who is left with a key that dose not give him score anymore, and when he lists the key he only gets applications from people who still need to progress that keylevel, with the chance of another depletion. If my key for the week gets depleted its a dead key for me. I don’t interact with the system anymore and try my luck in LFG.
At this point in the season is it unsuspecting? If I que up for a completely random 10, it’s to test some gear or talent change. I fully expect to have to carry the key holder, or at least do extra to make sure the key succeeds.
Hmm, maybe I’m reading that wrong. Are you saying you want to be able to upgrade a Champion to hero track, and so on? Not sure how I feel if we could upgrade Hero to Mythic track. You do make some good points with the net-negative, maybe the 2-3 charges is fine but the current setup is really annoying. I hope they do something to make it less annoying to push keys. Especially for PUGs like us.
Damn, I can’t help but agree with this statement as well. Maybe as Sosari mentioned, 3 charges in a key. Still able to lower it if so chosen. Though for some reason I have a feeling that if keys didn’t deplete, we might see more groups actually sticking together. So many times I’ve blasted a key as dps or tank successfully. Go to compliment the team and its a ghost town. Like they just want to get right back in que instantly.
Again, this goes back to people just jumping to keys they need and not sticking with the group I guess. Perhaps the only real answer is to build a full team.
I don’t think there would be anything wrong with adding some kind of system where someone gets 1 mulligan a week where they can use it before exiting a dungeon where it will keep the key from going down a level.
That should systematically cover the rare DC, rage quit, etc. Any more than that and people would probably just RIP runs 5 mins in because things aren’t going textbook perfectly.
Yes, my idea was that we could upgrade items to the next track with limitations.
- The current track has to be fully upgraded.
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- So a 4/8 Champion can’t be upgraded to Hero until they max it out to 8/8 first.
- Upgrading tracks would cost an enchanted crest similar to crafted.
- They could limit track upgrades up to Hero so Myth is still through vault only.
- They could also enable Myth track upgrades for weapons and trinkets only.
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- Which could have a higher cost of say 2 enchanted crests.
Yeah, while some of us can carry them there are a lot of groups that already struggle and fail, but with keys that don’t degrade there will be significantly more because keys can only go up. Giving keys charges helps everyone without the negatives of never depleting.
this person is the king of finding the most extreme ways of handling situations and applying them to justify stupid features in the game.
i like your idea about charges for keys before they deplete. it’s probably the only compromise that would work. I’d say do it beginning at 8+.
for the gear upgrading. i think that’s a good idea. i’d say stop at hero track though. have the upgrade from champ to hero cost 2-3 enchanted runed.
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If keys didn’t deplete, a lot of people would just get kicked from keys. Simple as.
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I’ve been trying to argue for key charges for a while, but it’s been slow to pick up because people are too fixated on wanting all or nothing.
Two charges as an S4 experiment sounds good if it’s too much of a change mid-expansion.
B/c of the ONE situation (that i really feel like you kind of pulled out of your behind) that you can think of happening?
I’ve never ONCE encountered people starting a key and then kicking a dps if the first few pulls went south.
Usually its just people disbanding when that happens. I dindt used to do that, but over time…when it became apparently most people are doing this now…i just went with it.
I think that if people WHO ARENT THE KEYHOLDER leave a key when there is more than 75% of its timer left, the keyholder’s key should NOT deplete. I’ve been advocating for this for the past 2 years. I am not down with punishing the leavers, i’m down with getting rid of the reason they leave. Nip it in the bud, stop fixing symptoms.
Because they’d deplete their key if they did that.