Gold is the reward part of effort vs reward and delayed gratification. A raid I might not do at all or would bail on earlier in a PUG is a raid I would stick through to the end in a GDKP.
and thats the thing, throwing your time into something you dislike to be paid in imaginary made up coins is insane. and if you enjoy and would do it regardless, seeking compensation is equally weird.
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Who asked?
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Once again a lot of leisure activities require effort you might not enjoy to be able to do the parts you do enjoy.
So then the community of gdkp discords im in over pug ms>os or SR runs?
Thanks for agreeing with me.
The organized gdkps are also better runs, its literally a win/win.
Glad youre starting to understand that its a community and not just a transaction.
Really? For gold? The only reason I’d do a raid I don’t like is if friends asked me too. Once blizzard switched to 10 and 25 man raids I only did 10 man because I didn’t like large raids. Gold wouldn’t convince me to do a 25, only a friend telling me they needed a healer and asking me to help out.
Out of the 2 scenarios which would you think is better or make you stay?
A pug thats failing from trade chat or a gdkp you signed up for on a discord of people you regularly play your alts in?
Look, I don’t have a problem with gdkps. I’m just saying that gold wouldn’t get me into a raid I didn’t like. If I was doing regular gdkps raids with mostly the same people I’m sure I’d become friendly with at least some of them. Groups with friendly acquaintances are better than groups with complete strangers.
Eh it isnt really gold its the fact the raid is organized and you know the people in it, the gold is just a form of raid currency to us.
LIke doing DKP or whatever other guilds use.
You keep looking at it as only transactional.
For you maybe but ziryus specifically said he would do a raid he didn’t like for the gold. That’s the reason I chimed in. I may not post much but I can read pretty fast so it doesn’t take much time or effort to keep up with the discussion. It’s an interesting discussion since there’s a possibility I might do a gdkps in Cata or MoP on an alt or two if lfr isn’t added.
For me atleast i only typically gdkp on alts, unless im going to do an older tier on my main, for example in p2 when my guild drops p1 raids i may go do gdkps with my main to just make gold if i want gold.
For my alt doing current tier it really isnt all about the gold is more that i want to raid more than my guild does so i make a gdkp alt and use the discord gdkp communities to raid because they are far better than any trade chat pug im going to find period.
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Then its not about GDKPs at all, is it? Your microcosm of well run GDKPs doesnt represent the entirety of the loot system, just a subsection that you happen to enjoy. Best ran groups in the game are pro guilds, followed for semi-pro guilds, which dont use GDKP unless its for their sold slots and carries.
Look, I don’t have a problem with gdkps. I’m just saying that gold wouldn’t get me into a raid I didn’t like
Which is a healthy attitude to have. However, most people do not enjoy raiding, dont even get upgrades anymore, but put up with it due to gold. They stay for the whole run due to the carrot like a common labor animal, yet this bribery is hailed as “superior” to friends playing together for the fun of it.
they are far better than any trade chat pug im going to find
You’d be surprised. For normal mode the difference is like what, half an hour? This is solved post-fix content with 4.3 class balance, you really are sweating over a tiny % improvement but mostly just egostroking for the sake of feeling superior. People have been doing the raid thing for so long its not challenging anymore, and next phase once people get theor heads around cata mechanics and itemization it’ll be even easier. Just like in wrath, when every random 10man pug could clear LK due to the buff, but even without it they could’ve cleared everything but, and BWD isnt any harder than ICC was.
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yeah works great for sod,not.sod is at its lowest point atm.
naw only reason im playing cata is to gdkp if they kill it im hanging it up
1 to a dozen?
I do wonder where you get this metric from, or is it just more of that anecdotal evidence?
Keep in mind that organized discord GDKPs are NOT posting in LFG, they are filled almost entirely from discord, so unless you’re in the ecosystem you will NOT see these runs forming.
On my server, the 2-3 largest GDKP servers would host 10+ runs per week with not a single post in LFG.
Also, these LFG PUG groups do NOT complete heroic content / hard modes which is where the big money is, they are on the exact same level as disorganized LFG MS>OS PUGs, because they are not organized. Keyword, organized.
Who are you to tell me how to play the game? What astounding arrogance.
If i decide that throwing myself at a crappy MS>OS group with a very low chance of getting any kind of reward is not worth my time, I will go play some other version of the game or a different game entirely.
I am not locked in to participate in the game in however YOU feel the game should be played.
This is where the entire discussion circles back to removing player agency. Removing GDKP is removing emergent player behaviour. Just because you do not agree with or participate in that behaviour does not mean it should not be allowed to exist.
If you remove agency you remove motivation to play the game for many people, me included.
As a result, I am now playing SoD a lot less (because my chars are near bis and running months of the same raid for no reward is NOT interesting for me), and playing other versions of wow/games instead.
This is not my problem, it’s blizzards, for making a version of the game that is NOT interesting to people like me.
What motivates raid hosts to provide consistenly high effort raid organization and leadership, week after week?
It’s not the love of the game, or friendship, it’s GOLD.
People want to be PAID to put in more effort than is expected/required, no one works for free. Keeping these runs filled with good quality players, running on time and executed efficiently takes a lot of planning and effort outside of the game. It’s not easy, or fun, and in return they expect something to make it worth their while.
GDKP provides this motivation, it’s why there are so many well organized and operated GDKP runs, there is an admin cut to provide direct incentive.
What direct incentive is there for someone to, week on week, operate multiple highly organized MS>OS runs?
People these days are too sweaty and take the game way too seriously. I suppose that is the generation z mentality of things, almost turns me off from wanting to play this game. People really need to make an effort on opening their windows for fresh air and sunlight and to touch some grass outside. Too many degenerative methods of trying to stay ahead of the curve with their min maxing ways to be on the front lines of the rat race. Perhaps in time people won’t focus on parses and rankings and just play the game for what it is (to have fun).
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Great and this would be the moment you realize not everyone is you.
An hour to two in a raid with a few hundred or maybe a few thousand payout isn’t a bad use of time.
Only an idiot would feel the need to tell someone that. Everyone knows that people are different. As you disagree with people daily how often has some one been as brain dead as you to point out that not everyone is you? I’m guessing you’re pretty alone in feeling the need to point out the obvious. Though it’s also possible the obvious is as deep as your thinking goes.
/shrug you sounded surprised other people might not raid for the exact same reasons and in the same manner as you do.
Personally I do GDKP’s when I’m pugging, so alts, previous tier etc… and in that case GDKP’s are simply a better experience than other pug formats.