its just like blizz disabling use mouse and forcing us with mousepad.
bring back acro range. our muscle memory and game designed to play with it for years. and now you are changing it without logic.
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Mists is especially bad. I have to literally be inside some mobs hitboxes … and frontals…seem to originate from the back of the hitbox on some mobs too.
It really is bad…I believe the dev said his decision on removing the extra range was final and there was no going back on it.
I do agree, it’s weird playing a game, and having to be so close that you can’t even see your character. Who wants to play like that?
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I hate the new Ara Kara visuals for Web Stun (last boss/guards). It used to be subtle but noticeable. Now it eats so much of the darned floor, that you can’t even see the black blood pools. Wrong direction for vfx.
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Visuals and swirlies feel terrible this xpac. I can’t tell if it’s the swirlies and frontals being completely broken or if EU ping is just even worse than I remember…
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I am having similar problems, particularly with distinguishing between the enhanced visuals and soak mechanics.
The only difference is the very faint upward vortex…
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what you described is the skill gap of playing actual melee. Alot about playing melee is good movement and knowing how to squeeze uptime, something similar to how ranged have to time casts vs dodging mechanics
So when the tank cuts left, then cuts right unexpectedly and cuts you off, so you have to run around…that’s a skill issue?
Standing under the NPC so you can’t even see your character is just perfect gameplay? Rets have 8/24+ yard range. But rogues have to stand under the NPC?
Come on man.
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you dont need to stand inside the npc, your melee range is not 0 lol.
Rogues have so many tools to react to stupid things tanks might do…you can grapple to better position, you can sstep for uptime. You’re pretty much sprinting 100% of the time at 70%+ movement speed as outlaw, when most other melee has to wheelchair. You also have cloak, feint, cheat death/elusiveness to bail you out of many those situations for uptime
Go fight those double mobs in Mists before the first boss and tell me you don’t have to stand under them.
That’s part of this conversation is that the melee range indicator isn’t always accurate and sometimes you can be 2 yards outside of it and sometimes you have to be inside the NPC you’re hitting.
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Ive done mists multiple times in +10. I think 1st boss is perfectly fine as melee, i stand right next to boss just outside the pool and still can melee.
yea those 2 mobs i just move out abit when the pools come out, 100% uptime. if you keep moving you only get slowed and you avoid the damage tick
I didn’t say the first boss lol.
Nice edit though.
So the tank is heading in a straight direction. Every new pool is 3 steps back. All of a sudden he cuts back to where he came from, and you gotta run around. That’s a skill issue on the rogue’s part?
The fact is - that melee is punished for bad tank movement. The lesser our range is - the more punishing it is. Something like a ret with 8/24+ yard range doesn’t even notice it honestly. And some of these dungeons were built with that extra range existing.
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do you know what you should do if the tank does that? Shadowstep or grapple out
Well I’m not gonna argue totally weird stuff with you. If you can’t admit that the less a melee’s range is, the more it’s affected by poor tank movement, and poor tank movement isn’t necessarily a skill issue with the rogue…this isn’t worth talking about.
Acro range was a QOL thing that existed for quite a long while. Certain dungeons and their mechanics were designed with that extra melee range existing. When they took it away, we lost a huge QOL. You were always free to not spec into it btw. If you wanted to have a reduced melee range, you always could. There were choices. Now we’re all forced into it. Of course it doesn’t apply to all melee across the board, however.
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this isn’t always true, specially not in raid at the moment, specially not when you’re running 20 or more people in a raid. You fundamentally misunderstand the changes on outlaw with the melee nerf. You’re out of range of most cleave, rarely can you even hit 8 targets with the talent at the moment. Fights like Queen Ansurek, Silken Court and ulgorax (mythic), brood etc… where you have to maximize your uptime while cleaving are actually a nightmare to do as outlaw because your range is lacking and the boss hitboxes are WAY too small for what they are. Ansurek specifically during the intermission you legit have to be on the circle line to hit her. This happens while you’re also getting pulled in, while you still have to dodge poison pulls, while you still have to dodge your buddies who decide to be on top of you etc…
This wasn’t a quality of life change for melee, it was something no one ever requested and it’s still not equal across the board. If you enjoy playing melee with reduced range and whatnot, sure go at it, I don’t and I think my sentiment echoes across the board with how much visual bloat and mechanics have been hyper added.
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i mean you can look at what other melee, outlaw specifically are doing for queen on logs. You can stand on the edge of the circle, do your rotation and press s while dodging the slime waves, which has a predictable pattern as well. If you wanna be fancy you can even max time and grapple to counter her suck. Adds pretty much all spawn in the same place where people stack for roots or drop the mechanic in p3. you can literally hold 1 vanish and crackshot them without much problem
Youre also focusing on that one part. Even if during intermission you stood back with ranged, pistol shotted and focus purely on dodging, its still possible to have a decent performance on that fight. Your not parsing poorly because you stuggle to attack the boss during intermission.
That fight is so choreographed, you pretty much should know exactly where you need to be, for uptime.
Regarding ground clutter and visual bloat. If you feel like youre in danger and you cant see anything. Just press cloak and feint, that should be your panic button.
Yes it is lmao. Rogue has the least reason to be complaining about that of all melee besides Ret. Shadowstep/Grapple. Immune if you can spare it. The options are there and others cant say the same.
if you use vanish or cloak during the webs you drop a puddle and if the pack around you is not broken quickly people take extra damage. i get your point, it’s what i do normally, but not in my raid currently and not when we have 30 ppl in it which is a complete cluster f. I know we have the tools but they also affect other people depending on the situation, the whole point of this is that it shouldn’t have been changed this drastically, it’s not a net positive for melee experience, it’s just a negative overall.
We’re not arguing “skill issue” here.
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Systemlands was designed with the extra range in mind for melee and range. But in TWW they removed most of the extra range for melee but left in the extra range for ranged DPS.
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Oh my goodness thank you so much for this! I guess we can all get back to having fun since there’s no problem and everything is fine.
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These threads are just not complete without Emberpaws coming in and telling people they’re unskilled noobs who don’t know how to play.
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