We used to have more incentive to stay in dungeons longer than we actually needed the gear. With badge rewards, or rep tabards so you could finish out a rep you didn’t want to grind dailies for. Nowadays they only give AP or loot to beg tanks/healers to go, and sorry, but that is not enough incentive for me to go into a dungeon more than I need to, let alone go to a Mythic to do that in.
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My wife and I routinely set a description that reads:
”Relaxed/chill group looking to complete dungeon before pushing the key. Let’s have fun!”
Ran two Mythics last night and we ended up friended all the players we ran with.
I completely understand the frustration and anxiety some of these kinds of dungeons cause - I have to do some “warm up” reps (lower mythics/heroics) Before I get into my main “one-Rep-Max” mythic (and I’ve only done a 7 on this tank!).
I play them less coz its hard for me to get into to groups that do the keys that wuld give me useful gear (10+) mainly coz ppl look at io scores. Even in my guild there is a few groups that do these 10+ keys and they are already formed and play together. So yeah, its a grind to get to the spot where M+ feels rewarding. And even then, ppl that are doing 10 regularly provably arent higher than 380 and im 376 without doing any key higher than 6 and half clearing heroic Uldir (i cap pvp regularly tho).
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Dungeons also used to have upwards of a dozen quests tied to them, which also helped to ensure that people stuck around to finish the dungeon.
I’ve never run a mythic, not even M0, since the system was introduced back in… Legion, I think. Now my main is a 373 Ret Paladin. To get anything useful from a run, I’d need to spend a lot of time working my way up keys for a chance of an upgrade. Not a fun idea, and when the guild restarts raiding this year, I’d drop dungeons anyway.
I won’t make the time for dungeons these days. I can’t remember the last time I even ran a heroic. There’s no point in them, unless I work my way up the mythic ladder at the expense of raiding. No thanks.
And I know there’s going to be someone who says they have a friend who works 23 hours a day, 8 days a week while studying for their PhD in astrophysics, lecturing in law at some university and playing professional sport. Good for them. I’ve got my own priorities, and frankly video games are low on that list. This is relaxing time for me, except for fun, challenging raids. Mythics are just not on the radar, they don’t matter in the slightest to me.
Nothing Blizzard can do will make me want to devote so much time to mythics. Good luck to those in them, I like that this game has many forms of endgame content and I wish them the very best of luck.
Blizzard did the same thing with Diablo 3. They had affixes that when combined Made stuff just wreck people no matter how geared you were. They are doing the same thing with The key Affixes. The right combo on the right map and an easy run turns into a nightmare.
How interested would folks be in, if we created a Blizzard community with push nights for Mythic+? This would be for folks that are saying they can’t get into 10s or can’t get their io up with a consistent group.
A couple of reasons, First the timer encouraging “GoGoGo!” Which basically leeches all enjoyment from the dungeon.
Second is the affixes themselves - most are just pointlessly difficult. I enjoy difficulty, but the affixes are just difficulty for difficulty’s sake. Get a ridiculous combo? You get the same rewards as an easy week. Why bother?
Lastly is the dungeon design themselves. BFA dungeons are a travesty IMO that were made for the MDI, not the average player.
How I’d fix the system: Remove the timer completely. Skips should be a sign of dungeon mastery, not a necessity. No timer means players can spend time discussing strategy, etc. etc.
Overhaul the affixes. Each one should be approached with “Is this fun?” and should be balanced against each other. Buff the dungeon to compensate.
It’s too late to redesign dungeons now, but we can still fix the overwhelming amount of trash. Seriously, wave after wave of trash isn’t fun…it’s tedious. And when trash are more dangerous than bosses, you know you’ve messed up dungeon 101.
it’s the best and only way to do m+ imo
sticking with the same 5 people is a pretty good way to not have someone available
a community gives you access to so many more keys and players.
Exactly.
The groups i get into the dungeon is too easy, i am pulling 2x the next dps (once i was doing more then everyone put together) in essence carrying the group. But in order to do a M+ that is rewarding and challenging i need some made up IO number that really has no bearing on how good I am just how well the groups I have been with have been.
I could pay a little gold and have people carry me in +12 on each dungeon and look like I am great even if they pretty much drug my body through the thing.
I hate how its not that blizzard locked content but the player base locked content behind 3rd parties and Achievements that one can easily pay in gold or real money to get. But people still believe AOTC and IO score are the be all end all.
Hoenstly, i’m scared that i’m not good enough. I’m scared that if I try to do M+ that I’ll be terrible and be ridiculed. I’ve specced the best I can, done my research and gotten the best gear I can through war fronts and the like. Mainly…I guess I don’t like doing it with strangers, but at the same time that’s what pugs are for anyway.
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because people want others who are over geared to either run with them or for them, or you have to pay to get into a group, M+ is the new “you must be this tall to ride”
and honestly i dont care how hard it is, its still the same thing 10000 times over
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For me it is the timer (only way to get better I/O score to get higher runs) and they are just adding more trash for the most part. It is not fun. Feels like a chore and making the trash harder does not make it better or more exciting. I know the bosses get the special abilities as well on higher runs, but that just adds a little bit of excitment, you still have to clear through all the BS to get to it. The higher you get they need to do something different like add other bosses, etc.
The repetitiveness really cannot be overstated. A handful of runs of a big dungeon map is greatly preferable to tens or hundreds of runs of a smaller dungeon map.
which is why BRD was epic and still is
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but it changes every week
at a 10, each infested mob is different every week and the modifiers change.
the mobs that need to be CCd in a pull changes as does the kill order and whether or not you’re allowed to aoe.
The modifiers don’t do anything to change the map. It’s the same stupid map split between normal, heroic, mythic, and m+. By the time the expansion has ended, you’ve seen that same map a trillion times.
It’s like taking the McDonalds dollar menu burger, rotating the toppings weekly, and claiming it’s a new burger each week. No, it’s still just a dollar menu burger.
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Oh goodie, more trash focus, just what we needed.
Trash is the most boring part of a dungeon, I dunno why harping on trash changing makes it seem more appealing, if anything harder longer trash just makes the dungeon less intresting.
To follow up on this, if a dungeon’s map is seen as something of no consequence, that’s part of the problem that people in this thread are talking about. M+ has left behind any trace of the dungeon’s RPG and pen-and-paper roots in favor of something closer to an action-adventure game. They reduce dungeons to nothing but a timed obstacle course with the trappings of a dungeon. There’s not a lick of fantasy to it, only numbers and performance metrics.
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Yeah I have a hard time nailing down just one thing to fix M+ in my eyes.
- Is for sure remove the timer, set the loot back to a normal drop pattern.
- Everyone should have a key that is independent. Your key gives you access to up to X level based on your completion.
- Allow queue’ing based on your completion level. If you key has access to +12 you can queue for anything 1 - 12 or set a range.
Although what I would really like is to see the above with random maps, mobs, and bosses. Dead ends, multiepl paths, traps, and puzzles to solve. And not pre-generated random crap where there is like 5 variations that are not really random. I want each run to feel unique have its own challenges. People should not be able to create addons that show the optimal mobs to kill, I want to think and have a different experience each run.