All I can say of what I wrote is this. These hyperbolic claims and demands are getting old and very annoying. The people voicing them are shouting to the wind, Blizzard is going to tell their story the way they want. They have already admitted that they made a “mistake”, I typed it this way because what they really did was royally screwed up, to put it mildly.)
Anyway, they know that they have to make amends. But all this nonsense that is coming out of a few people is just stirring the pot and making actual conversation really hard. If you don’t like it and can’t stand what is happening, then as has been suggested, maybe its time to get some distance from the game for a while.
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If you don’t want to see discussions about it then why are you posting in the thread?
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This isn’t a discussion, it’s typical alt-right blaming SJWs pseudo-intellectualism.
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if you dont like the game so much why you posting in the story forums
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A guy who put people in concentration camps for being Japanese?
Put the horde all in camps againnnnnnnnnn!
Typical Kyalin thread -a million words and frankly irrelevant comparisons to irl real politiks just to say “the story sucks”.
Frankly, the story sucks not because of conspiracy theories but simply because the company has a very lax quality control policies regarding narrative quality (and they even admitted it with their “lul, we don´t work on “negative” environments in which people criticize our job” wonderful public asessment); and in consequence thge narrative of the game gets negatively impacted, period.
They´re lazy AND amoral in the sense they DO know they´re lazy but like to pretend they aren´t and try to fix the laziness with outrageous overcompensating soap opera esque writting, so… par for the course.
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I think you may have entirely misunderstood the point of the post you linked.
Every single work of art is infused with the political beliefs of its creators. The original WC3, as shown in the post you copied, was about redemption - who is worthy of it, how do you achieve it, etc. The writing team’s opinions on the subject were very clear in how they followed and portrayed the morality of Arthas, Grom and Illidan.
The problem with BFA’s writing isn’t injecting political beliefs and moralizing - that’s inherent in any story about good and evil because it must define what “good” and “evil” mean. The problem is that the morality is so oversimplified that it twists in on itself and is constantly eaten by its own logic. And the manner its philosphies are presented to the player is obnoxious, especially if you are Horde, because you are forced into doing obviously wrong things and then beaten over the head with how wrong you were. And then for the Alliance, you have to deal with letting war criminals who participated in unprovoked attacks on your people twice in five years going free because “peace.” None of this is adequately explored.
The original original poster made an excellent point about the mak’gora: It should have included Sylvanas bringing up Saurfang’s hypocrisy because A) she would realistically do that and B) the story would be consistent and acknowledge the events it had been laying out from the beginning. But she didn’t and the redemption of the Horde was simplified - the Horde doesn’t shun Sylvanas because what she does is ugly and unnecessary, they do it because she flagrantly abandons them. No lesson is learned. Not really.
Arguably, the problem is that not enough politics have been injected into the game. It’s an incomplete philosophy. There’s no resolution.
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Yeah, people always miss this when they claim they want ‘no politics’ in a game. Most writing inevitably will have some political aspect, message, so on in how it is viewed.
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Yeah, the problem isn’t politics, it’s that the politics are bad and inconsistent within the universe. The Alliance is punished for its pacifist stance and then shown as correct in repeating its mistakes. The Horde is repeatedly shown to be at a moral crossroads that’s not resolved in any earned way.
There’s certainly a way to do a “war is bad” storyline, even in Warcraft, and have it be passable, if not everyone’s cup of tea. BFA is emphatically not it. Especially since the lesson the Alliance learns in the end, the same one learned in MoP, is arguably the reason BFA kicked off with the Burning.
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So we should genocide the germans lol, you guys are not very smart you are the ones boiling everything down to basic good and evil not blizzard, its the players saying the alliance should bash down the doors to org and murder every orc child and civilian cause of what sone soldiers who are probably dead did
Oh, absolutely not.
As an example, a very small, tiny little tweak would be having an epilogue wherein the Alliance dictates terms. The Horde has been the aggressor twice and their story was internal, not external, so I don’t think the core of Horde players - who are absolutely not Sylvanas loyalists - would have had a problem with that.
Show the Alliance taking back some land while enacting trade deals so the orcs of Durotar don’t starve. Justice and compassion, and forward, preventative thinking. Show them having some say in eliminating the position of Warchief. Show them making the armistice official after the Horde has demonstrated change.
Instead, the war ends with White Peace. It’s stupid pacifism. The night elves are still suffering and their borders are still screwed. The Alliance is not shown taking any smart preventative measure of any sort. Anduin even condescends to anyone expressing doubt. That’d be fine if it were shown to be a glaring character flaw, but I don’t think it was in that context.
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you dont know what is in the treaty you are headcannoning
I don’t know what is in the treaty because there is no canon treaty! There really should have been! Otherwise the Alliance is just repeating what didn’t work in MoP for no reason! It’s silly.
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your not updated date with the lore, there is a threaty, what the hell do you think they are signing at the end of the current patch, what to you think ion is talking about when he says theres a threaty and the war is over
I mean, there is a treaty mentioned. But there doesn’t seem to be anything in it. And the state of the world seems to just revert right back to the status quo only the Undercity and Teldrassil are gone.
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headcanon why would a treaty have nothing, just cause we dont know anything about it doesnt mean theres nothing
status quo is real good for the nelves, cause that means control of ashenvale and all there other lands with only teld missing
blizzard tries to portray that the greater good is far more important than revenge and in some way this is supposed to be our lesson.
the issue is, blizzard isn’t giving us any real reason on why we should care about the world at all if the other faction destroy your home. thats far more than any of the others wow villains have done during wow’s lifetime.
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“Can we agree that it’s ridiculous that the Alliance is going to let the Horde continue to govern autonomously after all the crap they’ve put us through?”
Yes, of course Socrates. How could I disagree?
“Also, it’s gross how the story tends to frame people with legitimate grievances like Jaina and Tyrande in the same light as bigots like Daelin?”
Indubitably, of course. I don’t see how it can be denied.
“In fact, Blizzard’s moral outlook in general is simplistic and naive, which is especially problematic when they introduce things like genocide?”
Indeed. If I didn’t agree with that, I wouldn’t even be worthy of this conversation.
“Much like the state of California?”
NOW LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE CREEP.
This thread would have been about 1,000,000x better without the irl BS
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Hah your one those people who think that writers dont put things like genocide in a story to not invoke real genocide, of course they want you think about real genocide, stories are meant to make you think
if you want to play a baby game, maybe hello kitty island adventure is more suited