Pathfinder Exists Because of Players' Lack of Moderation

[Übér-dragonmaw]

I like most of your ideas, but why, or in what context of gameplay, would rep grinds be optional in an MMORPG?

You realize rep grinds were mostly optional until WoD, right?

Unless you were pushing content early in the expansion, they weren’t a requirement, and, while there was some content locked behind them in vanilla and TBC, (shattered halls, for example, required a key from the local rep), the rewards for grinding rep tended to be pre-raid gear, crafting plans, or mounts/pets.

In WoTLK, they did away with the need for keys from rep to access heroics and dropped attunement quests for raids - and it’s widely regarded as the best expansion.

Rep for mounts, toys, pets, recipes, gear, and even some content (so long as there is alternative content) is fine. Rep for gameplay is not. What’s locked behind a grind and why matters. I’m not really a fan of the essences either, because of how they locked specific ones to specific content, and because of how much they impact character power and how you play; it’s another thing setting alts back as well (IMO, they should have been account wide unlocks at least, so players with multiple characters don’t have to farm them repeatedly).

Players want the convenience of flight before the storyline to engage themselves in the gameplay, which speaks to another issue that has nothing to do with the time-gating of flight.

Nobody would be complaining if flight was just unlocked after the main story quests. That’s one of the proposals people have made to replacing pathfinder - just tie getting flying into the main story somehow.

The problem is locking it behind 90 or so hours of rep grinding (If you include both parts of pathfinder) doing the same world quests every day, because there’s no alternative way to earn rep like in prior expansions where dungeon mobs and many world mobs gave rep.

Stop being lazy, put the work in to both the requirements.

Complaining about something =/= being lazy. I’ve done pathfinder grind. That doesn’t mean I think it’s a good system or that I liked it, and the same is probably true of most of the people that have posted complaints about it. If nobody complains about what they don’t like, nothing will get improved.

[Sorelai-wyrmrest-accord (Sorelai)]

Pathfinder exists because the development team decided to get rid of flight altogether. The resulting storm of complaints and loss of subscriptions forced them to add it back in by Management Decree. This is why we have Pathfinder. The developers were forced to add it. Otherwise World of Warcraft probably would have died during Draenor.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

Pathfinder and the MASSIVE time gate is the dev’s punishment to the player base that loves flying.

[Oimâk-zuljin (Oimâk)]

but there is requirements you’re trying to circumvent the system to be the way you want it. lets be fair living in your parents basement is not a job. They have probably given up on you being anything more than a basement dwelling child who has let them down, because every time they want you to do it their way you throw a fit about how you just have to have what you want now, it’s not the way the real world is, once you come out of that basement and see how it is you’ll understand.

[Oimâk-zuljin (Oimâk)]

I wish they’d go through these forums and take away flying to everyone who complains about it. that would be awesome, and something i’d love to see.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

Waiting as a requirement lol. Then you go back to the same tired basement kid insult. Tell me do you have any original material or are you going to keep saying the same tired insult every time you’re compelled to reply to one of my posts?

Usually the ones throwing the “kid” insult around are right around the “kid” level maturity themselves.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

I’d just quit. I highly doubt a business wanting to make money would do that.

You just seem like bully who wants to take joy away from people and laugh when they complain about it.

I’m sure you’re a great role model for someone…

[Lincolnstern-dawnbringer (Lincolnstern)]

A trick to internet trolling is that the insults people throw around are the same insults that bother them. If you add in a virginity statement you’ve covered maybe 90% of internet trolling.

[Mapiya-steamwheedle-cartel]

These “life sucks, get over it” arguments when applied to games pretty much misses the point of games. Successful game provide content for all kinds of players, assuming that players wills elect the form of content they prefer. For a dev team to make the argument that all players should consume all content even if the player isn’t having fun is hard to imagine.

[Übér-dragonmaw]

For a dev team to make the argument that all players should consume all content even if the player isn’t having fun is hard to imagine.

Yes, though this does appear to be one of the major goals of the current dev team, and IIRC, they’ve basically said as much outright, minus the mention of whether or not a thing is fun.

Ion did come out and say that he thinks it’s perfectly okay for the best PvP gear (specifically trinkets) to come from PvE and vice-versa, despite that being one of the foremost complaints from the PvP community (aside from asking for PvP vendors back… I still don’t get why they thought removing them would be a good idea in the first place, and I don’t think they’ve actually said anything on the topic). Granted, he did say admit the power of those trinkets in PvP was too high.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

Yes, though this does appear to be one of the major goals of the current dev team, and IIRC, they’ve basically said as much outright, minus the mention of whether or not a thing is fun.

It’s like they think if they just force feed us enough things we dislike, we’ll magically start liking them. “No, Timmy, you don’t hate brussels sprouts; brussels sprouts are delicious. Eat them, Timmy! EAT THEM, until you love them!”

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

It wasn’t. One of the best ‘main story’ quests in the game was for the Onyxia key. That was never time gated, it was only limited by the player’s ability to get things done.

i don’t even remember a key for Onyxia.
I remember capes… but my brain doesn’t seem to go back far enough to recall a key.

regardless, there was no flight in classic… not i’m not sure why you’re even going there.

Now we have to grind reps to unlock the flying mechanic. We have to grind rep to unlock Allied races. You can’t do either of those things without grinding out world quests and Emissary rewards over time.
If you want those things you have to do it one way and one way only.

and why is this a problem?

keep in mind, i haven’t completed p2 yet, so i’m not coming from a self-righteous place here… i simply don’t understand why people are unaccepting of pathfinder.

people constantly come to the forum and complain there’s “nothing to do”.
…oddly enough, i haven’t seen this since the patch dropped, because the game has taken them by the hand, and guided them towards something to do.

Who said it wasn’t? Clearly you are having reading comprehension issues. It’s pretty clear you are just a terrible troll.

it’s almost as if there is more than one person posting in this thread.
(but posters like you are entertaining… "EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T AGREE WITH ME IS A TROLL!!!111)

[Mokrawr-area-52 (Mokrawr)]

don’t understand why people are unaccepting of pathfinder.

Probably because it comes so long after hitting max level and being “immersed” in the content.

You can probably find hundreds, if not thousands, of posts giving reasons why people are not accepting of pathfinder.
Some of them are even here in this thread.

[Furvus-dawnbringer (Furvus)]

i don’t even remember a key for Onyxia.

They mean attunement in TBC.

[Righteous-garrosh (Righteous)]

Pathfinder 1 completion should have unlocked the original BfA zones for flight once 8.2 hit live. The 2 zones introduced in 8.2 are separated by distance and phasing/instanced from the original zones. Worked for Timeless Isle. Still works for Timeless Isle three expansions later. Not to mention the Draenei starting isles (distance) or the Blood Elf starting zone (phased/instanced).

[Krezan-turalyon]

I can see that a possible motivation, too, but it seems too conspiratorial to accuse the devs of being that petty about flight.

They outright removed flight in WoD and only brought it back because of the backlash it created…

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

ok, in that case, i’ve got no idea what is being discussed.

what does tbc have to do with onyxia?

[Furvus-dawnbringer (Furvus)]

what does tbc have to do with onyxia?

You’re right.
wow.gamepedia com/Onyxia%27s_Lair_attunement
I started in Wrath

[Yaoyun-sargeras]

You just strike me as the type of individual who goes out of their way to mock people who don’t agree with your world views. I would also guess you don’t spend the time to understand another person’s point of view or why they enjoy something you don’t.

So. Let me spell this out for the little manchild who can’t be bothered to spend a minute in someone else’s shoes:

A system was introduced almost a decade ago that some players loved: Flying. It revolutionized the way we viewed travel. This isn’t a battle about what someone should or shouldn’t be able to do, this is a group of people voicing their opinions about a game they love enough to get upset about. They love to fly. They want to do it so much they came here to let the developers know.

And yet… people like you exist! LET ME ASK YOU THIS: How does their ability to fly hurt you or your ability to play the game as you want? Does the idea of someone gaining the ability to fly without spending countless hours moving a number up for an imaginary faction endanger your life? Does it hurt someone you love?

Those questions are rhetorical. Stop being an absolute ham sandwich and shut your disgusting trap. You’re a pathetic little manchild who is seeking validation on the internet. No one cares how “gud” you are for wasting your life on a video game. Go sit in the corner. The adults are talking about something important.

[Halleth-uldaman (Halleth)]

I like the concept of Pathfinder. I like the account wide aspect and I don’t think the requirements are extreme. What is extreme is the amount of time gate the devs put into the game. Pathfinder should be in the 1st major patch of an expansion. That is a good compromise.

Flight should unlock at max level. Pathfinder should not exist.