I guess it’s a good thing that I’ve already got what I can get from epic BGs.
(Yes I stink at PVP)
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Holy Fricking Cow, -20% baseline? Why did they sledgehammer Rets with the nerf hammer but gave Fire Mages the kiddy glove treatment with -6% damage?
Cut that nerf in half Blizzard, no one thinks 20% is a reasonable amount, go with 10%.
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20% is a sledge hammer? lol you were almost outhealing actual healers in awc, even with 20% you’ll be fine
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20% is a sledgehammer. What would you think if we nerfed your damage by 20%? That would be a sledgehammer.
Don’t lie, don’t obscure what it is. It is a sledgehammer, it is 1/5th of healing gone. It is a permanent mortal strike effect.
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triune got nerfed by 45%, idk why you’re equating healing to damage. they didn’t touch your 15k tvs or the kyrian instant gibs, you just can’t full heal yourself 3 times over while ur healer sits cc lol
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Yet your damage, which was the issue, was nerfed by 6%, handled with kiddy gloves.
Also, #1, Triune’s a legendary, not baseline. #2, not all the effects of every shield is equal. #3, you rely significantly less on the shield than Paladins do on WoG.
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I’m annoyed that they went for the dumbest possible version of this change (nerf WoG base healing, rather than making it possible to OOM/make it not spammable/nerf Healing Hands to a similar level to other talents). If I’m running Healing Hands anyway, I guess it doesn’t make much difference where the nerf comes from, but it would be nice if they could find a way to make the other talents in that row meaningful options.
On the other hand, they didn’t change the prot legendary for ret (??), so I may craft that and start running it next week, haha.
65 -> 50 is a 23% reduction. Unless you’re counting it as ‘15% of base shield, on 3 shields’, but that’s a silly way to measure changes.
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So, a question to the PvPers… is Selfless Healer, the FoL boost, simply out of the question? Say, pair that with Magistrate’s Judgment where you can get cheaper spenders and potentially use FoL more. No?
triune is baseline because every mage uses it, and I’m not sure why it matters if something is baseline or not to begin with lol. and again, you’ll still be fine, your 15k wogs are going to be 12k wogs now. I play holy not ret but you cant actually think it wasn’t deserved
20% effective or 195% to 150% it’s all the same lol
I don’t think logic and math is their strongsuit.
No, it’s not, that’s literally not the definition of baseline lol.
Baseline effects everything.
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Prot was, Ret not even close.
You people that don’t play Paladins don’t seem to realize that Ret’s healing and Prot’s healing are not remotely the same… Prot’s WoGs heal for nearly double what Ret’s do, and they generate Holy Power faster than Ret does, so they can use it far more often.
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Prot can also generate HP while LoSed from an enemy. (*without using a major cooldown.)
It’s less unattractive than before, but my issue with SH is that it only affects one cast and then you have to build stacks again, so it just doesn’t help much when someone is getting focused. In 2s, I’m often casting multiple WoGs back to back, and two SH-buffed WoGs does more healing than one base WoG and one SH FoL; the more WoG you cast, the wider the gap becomes.
If you have a healer and don’t have to spam WoG as much, then maybe?
Suppose that, rather than nerfing Triune by 23%, we nerfed the baseline Barrier spell by 23%. If you’re using Triune Ward, the outcome is the same. But now Triune Ward is still just as mandatory as before.
I don’t know if there’s another mage legendary that is at all in the running for PvP, but if there is a remotely close #2 that you would like to use, it now looks more viable by comparison: it’s specifically Triune Ward that got weaker, not just barriers in general.
This is exactly the issue with WoG right now: the Healing Hands talent is still mandatory, it just doesn’t go as far. Evidently they think WoG+HH does about 20% too much healing, but HH is a 70% buff, so why not just tone down the talent and leave the baseline alone? Then at least Selfless Healer would look more like a reasonable tradeoff, and Justicar’s Vengeance could enter the running if it ever got tuned above “straight trash”.
It’s honestly baffling to me that Hand of the Protector is literally “pre-nerf Healing Hands, except 2.5x as strong” and has somehow remained untouched.
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I’m literally referencing the awc scoreboards of ret lol
so the difference of a legendary being run 98% of games and a baseline ability differs where outside of those 2% of games?
triune is still mages only choice but that wasn’t really my point lol.i agree healing hands should of been nerfed instead but since healing hands is run in 99% of games and so is triune, nerfing the effect or the baseline is a moot point. end of the day, ret needed a nerf to healing and this is that. we’re both still going to be running the same talents and the same legendaries.
You can’t distort the definition of baseline.
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so ur entire point is semantics, got it.
I already checked the scoreboards from every match from the finals/semifinals of the AWC where a Ret was present (Thug and Cara, the two “best” rets in the tournament) and neither one ever came close to beating a healer in healing done.
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prnt dot sc/wrngzs
1.2m vs 900k is “never came close” range? lol
So, a 32% difference is suddenly not significant?
Taking healing out of context is silly anyways. So what if they healed a lot? If that’s their primary source of damage mitigation of course it’s going to look like a lot… COntrast with a Warrior who primarily migigates damage by reducing it, if you put all that reduced damage up on the healing meters it would look ridiculous too.
Also, if you just put links in the “preformatted text” thing (looks like </> in the post window) it will let you post them without any weird formatting like having to replace . with “dot”.
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I don’t think it is moot. Sure, 99% of players run Triune or HH now, but that’s part of the problem.
Instead, they took “wtf, Ret does as much as a healer” to “wtf, Ret does 80% as much as a healer” while changing nothing else, which is a problematic “fix” for everyone involved.
This is sort of an academic distinction - on some level, a healing nerf is a healing nerf, and it’s not critically important which multiplier gets reduced. But between waiting forever for PvP tuning, and then getting the least-thoughtful version when it arrives, I’m just really unimpressed with Blizzard right now.
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