Paladin - Feedback

Consecration - make it baseline.

Precision - change to melee and spell hit.

Reckoning - change to % on hit proc same as TBC. (fixed)

One-handed spec- change to 5% overall dmg while equipping 1h same as TBC.

Avenging Wrath - Undispellable .

Imp Sanctuary - Terrible rune, redesign.

Add back Horn of Lordaeron to leg slot and make it scale with imp might. Or else alliance won’t have a grace of air equivalent buff.

Malleable Protection - Good rune but will never compete with sheath.

Greater Blessings - Should scale with the book and be increased to 30 min duration.

Shield of Righteousness - Needs an extra component added to it, like block/damage reduction/crit chance or mana.

Tier1 6pc- make 2nd seal persist for longer, 8-10 sec so that rotation doesn’t feel too punishing and clunky. Otherwise just change it.

Divine Light - still does not proc illumination or befit from divine favor in the new ptr.

Holy Shock - change range to 30yd.

DEF to SP conversion makes no sense for prot as very few abilities scale with sp. Instead give crit chance for every +8 def.

Avenger Shield - Lower the cd or add it to AoW.

Crusader Strike - hits like a wet noodle, unnormalize it so it can chonk :metal:

Imp Hammer of Wrath - Could use a rework, currently useless.

Righteous Vengeance - Dot is not very cool and breaks our cc, could be flat damage instead?


Divine Light is being moved to the cloak slot, (so wont be on the same slot martyr was) so there is a healing option in that slot. Its just very oddly at the bottom of the notes, not in the pally section.

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From the perspective of a Prot paladin:

Threat is going to be a huge limiting factor for paladins in P4 with the current kit. We just dont do enough TPS to keep up with everyone else. With the changes to Art of War we need abilities that build threat quickly.

Hammer of the Righteous, is a bit of a noodle atm, would have loved to see this changed to 3x dmg instead of 2x (Or not changed at all). I dont believe the additional threat is in yet cause it seems to do nothing in terms of generating threat. DMG scales with AP.

Shield of the Righteous is cool, but also doesnt scale with anything but BV, let it scale with AP or SP please so it isnt so weak. I cant build threat with these water guns you’ve provided blizz!

Aegis, I really like the redesign of this rune. It gives paladins some agency in proccing redoubt which is great. I still believe that Block Value as a stat is too heavily weighted on gear.

Example: the Wailing Berserkers chest piece Vs Banished Martyr chest piece tier pieces from ST. The DPS version has 21 Str, 14 Agi, 12 Stam, the Prot version has 5 Str, 9 Agi, 18 Stam and 24 BV. There is no world where removing 15 stats is worth 24 BV. Ive posted this before on the forums and I’ll say it again, please decrease the stat weight for block value. In no world should I give up 15 stats, for 24 BV, against bosses that hit for THOUSANDS.

Art of War, man this one is a bit of a double edged sword. Exo spam was not incredibly interesting gameplay wise, but it allowed for truly obscene amounts of threat generation. The current additions and changes are a bit too lackluster to cover for the loss of Exo spam. If paladins want to compete with any of the other tanks (currently from my experience ALL tanks have much higher TPS than paladins) they need a bit more power.

Would love to see Art of War changed to one of the following:

  1. Melee critical strikes cause you to gain an extra attack. – Since reckoning is dead for prot paladins anyways since we can’t be crit, move it to a rune. Also helps with the lack of WF on Alliance side, also Ret would LOVE this.
  2. Melee critical strikes reduce the CD of Exorcism by 5 seconds – just splitting the difference between how it was and how it is.
  3. Your melee critical strikes reduce the CD of Exorcism, Avengers shield, and all abilities that give you Forebearance by 1 second. – Lets use wings more consistently without being overtuned, really opens up the whole kit to more use not just exorcism.

Consecration - change to baseline

Would be incredibly nice to not have to invest 20% of my talent points just for the one ability. But might be to un-vanilla to actually happen.

Precision - change to melee and spell hit

Not sure this is necessary considering we get the 6% hit from the ring rune.

Reckoning - change to % on hit proc same as TBC

I think for both reckoning and redoubt this should be the case. Having to take redoubt to use Aegis, and needing Aegis to actually proc redoubt is silly.

One-handed spec- change to 5% overall dmg while equipping 1h same as TBC

We’re getting into obscure territory here where suddenly we’re asking for a whole talent tree rework (which would be great!) but I dont think this level of change is feasible.

Avenging Wrath - Undispellable

Unpopular opinion, but I enjoy some classes having options to play around this.

Imp Sanctuary - Terrible rune, redesign

This rune has its purpose for soloing content, but currently in raid situations is most definitely not something anyone will take. It would need to add additional threat, increased block value or mana regen to be usable in raid situations.

Malleable Protection - Good rune but will never compete with sheath

I want this desperately as a prot paladin, we have very few real defensive CD’s, but I will never take it because I can never pass up sheath. Losing sheath pretty much means I lose a huge % of my threat generation. Though with no more exo spam maybe SP isnt as valuable anymore…

Greater Blessings - Should scale with the book and be increased to 30 min duration


Shield of Righteousness- Way to bland it need some extra component added to it, like block/damage reduction/crit chance.

Agreed, it doesnt do enough as is. Currently doesnt scale with SP or AP, would love to see it have the same spell scaling as exorcism in order to make it more viable, or if blizz doesnt want to increase the dmg make it at least do increased threat.

Prot T1: I cant even begin to explain how excited I am for this. <3

Conclusion: Really like the rework. Prot Paladin FEELS like a tank now, and not just a ret paladin with a shield. With some minor changes I think Paladin could compete with some of the other tanks in raids. The hole left by AoW being changed in our rotation is glaring and needs to be addressed, but overall I think this was many solid steps in the right direction.

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I think this actually kinda makes sense. Consecration is something almost all paladins want to have usually. It could allow them to move Holy Shock up to the Consecration slot so Shockadin can still get Vengeance from the ret tree.


its really dumb to have avenging wrath dispelable and on a 3 min cooldown when priest dispersion cannot be purged and its a 2min cd

make avenging wrath 2min cd and as well as not dispelable. u
T1 bonus has lots of problems, you will have to keep 2 seals up every 8 seconds for judge. honestly they need to make it baseline that judgement does not consume your seal or add that to the set bonus

cloak rune righteous vengeance: not a good rune. adding % dot to ret kit is dumb, and will cause your dot to break ccs… and it doesnt apply to exorcism too? our number 1 dps skill currently… Should be reworked, maybe make it something like.
When your Judgement, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, and Holy Shock, exorcism crits, your next Judgement, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, and Holy Shock, exorcism deals 30% more damage as holy damage.


that could be cool actually, and make the holy shock do 30% more healing after a crit so holy paladins actually have a useful cloak rune slot

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we should be doing more damage with our class defining skills, not doing busy work like 2 globals on seals every 6 seconds or spamming fast hit for exo procs.

i feel like most people think of paladins as 2 handed gods who smite foes down in 1 hit, not whatever aggrend has tuned it to be on sod. i hope command actually sees some use. as a matter of fact, i feel like martyr and command should just be combined somehow instead of dancing to keep both up for twisting memes.

btw divine storm should have been holy damage since phase 1, why are we 4 phases in and DS is still physical?

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martyr being unnormalized also just like, neuters SoC in every way. “would you like to use the slightly more damaging seal that has a 47% proc chance? or would you like to use the one that does slightly less damage with 100% proc chance?” what meaningful choice!

“do I want to put a neon sign on my back that says dispel me and get 0 value out of my CD and kill me, I have no defensives now? or do I wanna just not do that and save bubble for when I need it?” another meaningful choice!

literally could have just given us one way to get an instant heal as ret (WoG or AoW flash), vindicator, and BUFF divine storm. the tier set is actually baffling.

good thing Ele is getting some love though, they really needed it.


just combine command into martyr when you have it talented it and it gives martyr the added proc chance to do more damage. there, fixed it.


EZ gg

and buff divine storm. it’s 10% more damage than an auto attack on a 10 sec CD.

ret complained that HotR hit harder than divine storm, and rather than buff divine storm they just nerfed HotR lmao


Prot pal threat will be disgustingly bad and they wont fix it until its super obvious and everyone is complaining later

Not super sure about the threat because we didn’t see the t1 stats yet, but some abilities def need a buff. Shield of Righteousness is so bad, hits like a wet noodle and has no real purpose besides being an ability that uses the shield.

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I’m not understanding threat complaints, paly tank for “testwork” was doing 850 ish dps in one of my groups, with over 70% of it holy damage. Prot after talents ect gets a 2.85 coefficient on holy threat which means he was doing

850*.7 = 595 holy dmg per second
595 * 2.85 = 1695 tps

250 * 1.5 = 382 tps from physical

2077 tps total

A warrior in fury stance with salv would need to do
3,296 dps to match

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I give up and am tired, bro there are people advocating for shockadin on a separate thread.

devs may actually prio dumb :poop: again like shockadin and seal twisting over making ret a heavy hitting slow 2h god. because for some reason, idiots also play our class and advocate for the dumbest stuff.

You’re wrong about wings. Do you just go around talking about stuff you are not qualified to speak on? Why? Get some help. Just because you lack skill and experience and aren’t good at the game doesn’t mean paladins needs x or y. Wings being dispellable is perfectly fine.

wings being dispellable is not perfectly fine when we have no purge protection+purge has no CD.

ok buddy, keep getting upset that I want ret to be the best it can be, and not have dev resources wasted on an ACTUAL meme spec like shockadin.

paladin main for years btw (this is my alt paladin on retail, I have 3)

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I mean all Shock needs really is for them to make a 4th Tier set that works with it via stats/set bonus.

Not having a displayed Tier set for it is i think the heart of this issue is.

You should be taking 5/5 into Divine Strength and 5/5 into Improved Seal of Righteousness to buff SoM so you’re only dropping 1 extra talent point for Consecration

you are a fake paladin

I do believe there needs to be some buffs to prot but saying that we dont do enough TPS is NOT true at all. The issue isnt our TPS, its our overall DPS since right now in the PTR we’re doing about 200 DPS less than what a ret tank would do with exo spam in ST.

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