Outlaw rated as the worst melee for arenas

rated by wowhead as D-Tier, even below the C-Tier enhancement.

what improvement would you like to see in terms of outlaw pvp?
I personally hope they can do something with our mastery. It seems to be the dominant stat in new gears but virtually useless.

/sob

2 Likes

Without significantly changing how the spec works, it really needs a mortal strike to help it out imo. It doesn’t have much burst and its sustain is RNG. All its damage has to go through armor too. So without a healing reduction I find it just can’t apply any pressure.

The things it has going for it are a couple of ranged abilities which stun/slow, hard to track CD’s (including shorter blind), and another interrupt with gouge.

None of that compares to sin’s damage going through armor and helping with uptime, multi-dotting and it also having a healing reduction with effectively no CD that can be spread around.

4 Likes

Here are some ideas that might be able to help Outlaw in regards to PvP.

  1. Make Revealing Strike a baseline ability.
    Right now we have Ghostly Strike as a Tier 1 talent. Despite bypassing armor, this ability pales in comparison to Quick Draw combined with Deadshot. Plus, the 35 second cooldown doesn’t do it any justice. I recommend making this ability baseline and bring down the cooldown to 30 seconds and maybe let Restless Blades reduce the cooldown.

  2. Fix Roll The Bones.
    I don’t really hate RtB. I hate how it works. I recall a user writing a detailed post about making RtB a passive ability that activates every time you use a finishing move. I think this is a good idea and should be looked at.

  3. Make Killing Spree baseline.
    This ability has always been the iconic ability of Combat and I believe it should stay that way with Outlaw. This ability coupled with Revealing Strike could solve our issues with burst.

That’s all I have for now. Would love to hear other ideas.

5 Likes

The problem is that Outlaw is currently already the king of PVE content, mainly because of Blade Flurry. Naturally you would need a PVP talent that trade off Blade Flurry for a significant single target damage buff. If you give a mystic+ outlaw something new that’s amazing, they will simply use it with blade flurry on, that pretty much can’t happen right now… It’s all about balancing around having/not having Blade Flurry IMO.

As for Roll the Bones, I would like to see the mechanics changed to where there’s a way for you to keep your current dice while you re-roll to add a dice, and you’re constantly trying to build to 5 dices. They would need to rebalance the new mechanics so that having all 5 dices isn’t OP, and you are expected to eventually get 5 dices for max dps potential. That would keep the dice rolling while not succumb to RNG, your luck would simply affect how fast/slow you can build 5 dices.

Outlaw can not be buffed because a ranged stun is OP. And the chance for six buff roll is also OP.

As long as those two conditions exist Outlaw can never be buffed for PVP.

Grappling Hook is a large downgrade vs. Shadowstep. Shadowstep is a far better all around button for PvP, for several reasons (mostly the fact that it is instantaneous while GH has a travel time).

RTB design doesn’t allow you to choose when you need your damage to happen. That is essential to happen in PvP, particularly for Rogues of all classes, because we play setup based compositions where you coordinate crowd control and burst damage to create pressure on the enemy to burn defensive cooldowns or die. RTB doesn’t fit into that playstyle because with RTB you have to react to the buffs you are given.

3 Likes

I can hope to get six buff but that’s no longer a case.

Main issues with outlaw is simply lack of mortal strike debuff and no actual burst damage.

Back in Legion when burst damage was a lot higher Outlaw was a great PvP spec because of how effective Between the Eyes was combined with Marked for Death and Curse of the Dreadblades which let the spec kill people easily with repeated finishers. Mortal Strike is a solution to a bigger problem in PvP that shouldn’t exist which is that heals are too effective. Even if the spec gets Wound Poison in Shadowlands lack of burst will still be a problem. The spec isn’t cut out for extended play in a PvP scenario which is ironic since both Combat and Outlaw were once themed around being the specs that thrived in extended battles compared to the other two specs which relied on ambushes. Combat never had this problem in the spec’s later days because of the beauty that was Bandit’s Guile. Why they removed the spec still mystifies me to this day especially since it was so well-regarded in both WoD and MoP and nobody ever asked for it’s removal.

Abilities like Killing Spree or Ghostly Strike need to be moved to baseline and useful passives need to be put in their place. Rogues have long been a class that have suffered from having too many useful abilities being on their talent trees instead of passives that make the whole class play better.

There’s not even much to say about the spec’s mastery because not only does it scale badly but it’s also uninteresting and fairly useless. The mastery of most other DPS specs increases the entire amount of damage that their abilities or pets do. Demon Hunter’s Havoc mastery increases their movement speed on top of that. What does Outlaw’s do? A chance for an extra attack that once again does physical damage. It’s no wonder at all that the stat is so much of a low priority for the spec.

3 Likes

It has a stun as part of it’s dps rotation.
In a PvP mode that is all about CC chain setups, usually involving stuns.

It’s not going to be a thing so long as Blizz keeps arenas this way.

Here’s a thought, why not give a pvp talent that makes it so that Between the Eyes applies a MS effect, removes the stun effect, and gives outlaw kidney shot.

2 Likes

Outlaw could definitely use either MS or some sort of ArmorPen. Either the old finisher style armor debuff or a passive armor pen. If they got some solid armor pen, I mean, we’re swash bucklers, it could almost make up for MS. Especially if it was significant.

Other than that, it honestly just needs the nerfs to Dispatch, BtE, and Deadshot trait scaled back. Outlaw was in a good spot up until about 8.1.5 when they took the nerfs further.

182k Pistol shots in PvE, happy to see it above 30k in PvP. Dispatch and BtE suffer similar issues that could be scaled back a few percentage points. Allow BtE to have it’s extra crit damage or scale back the overall damage nerf. Our finishing moves just tickle people.

Like others have said though, getting Outlaw to a good point in PvP is easy, but it’s not going to happen while it’s good in PvE. They’ve already shown that they’re extremely adverse to PvP only balance since 8.1.5 and will only address PvE issues, of which Outlaw has few. Here’s to hoping for 9.0, but I can’t even imagine what Outlaw is going to be like without traits or essences as a crutch…

1 Like

The crit bonus from BTE is disabled for two straight expansions and they increased BTE CD from Legion heading into BFA.

That means Blizz thinks it would be a problem if Outlaw has its PVE mechanics untouched into PVP.

The only thing I hate about this spec is I find myself either not noticing my Pistol Shot Proc in a timely manner or finding it rather annoying that it did and feeling obligated to use it. I would love to see Riposte make a comeback in it’s place and perhaps a more noticeable icon above my head.
And since we forgot how to use poisons for some reason it would be nice to see that old talent that dazes our target again, I believe it was 10% chance at 3/3 talent in BC/Wotlk.

Just give me true and real flurry/sword spec back and let it chain again. I’m fine with the spec being lumpy on delivery - more risk/more reward is an interesting dynamic. It just needs to happen more often and more meaningfully. Having the ability for SS to hit twice in a row or even white damage and have it potentially proc off of itself would be awesome. You could even make it a talent in the blade flurry row that changes Blade Flurry’s use from AOE to related targets to applying extra hits to current target based on number of others near you (eg. You and 1 other means chance to hit 2X, you and 2 others (dps and healer) and it jumps to chance to hit 3X). That way you’d also force a spread response ala chill streak or face your healer potentially being chunked, and it wouldn’t let M+ runs get crazy.

remove rtb, add all the stats that rtb gives and balance that. don’t need slice n dice, don’t need roll the bones. just need decent sustain, good burst coupled with mortal strike, execute, armor penn

Just remove RTB completely, buff our baseline haste and give us slice and dice back. Not going to happen though , devs won’t see these posts.

But…that doesn’t even fix the problem with Outlaw in this meta. It’s purely the fact that they neutered our finishing moves and burst. Outlaw HAS burst. It’s just been nerfed by 30-50%. Making SnD baseline would actually make the class WORSE than it is right now. Blizzard has stopped caring about PvP balance and as such, we get to ride it out until Outlaw blows in PvE again and they need a buff.

Why is Sub and Outlaw finishers nerfed in PVP? Blizz this makes no sense.

4 Likes

It was understandable before the blanket trait nerf. With Deadshot doing so much, BtE and Ambushed needed to be nerfed. Once they applied the blanket trait nerf that stopped being true. I get that 140K+ Deadshot crits are bad, but could Dispatch do more than a SS strike w/ proc?

Unnerf gun traits and give us a mortal ability. Literally that is all that would be needed to make it viable as all we lack is burst (from gun attack nerfs in PvP) and healing reduction. Our sustained is probably as good if not better than Sin, but it’s useless if we can’t shift up a gear at a moment’s notice for a real go.

They don’t have to change the gun attacks to pre-nerf levels as they were outrageous, but just a buff to keep the dps in line with Sin would be fine.

I’m fairly casual these days and would love to play Outlaw but RtB just kills me. I get so many bad rolls that I just got tired of trying. Everyone loves the 5 roll but it is so rare for me that forget I can roll more than two.

I also play with a group of friends that spam regular BG’s and Outlaw hits like a wet noodle which again is frustrating. So I play Assn for now and will look for changes in 9.0.

1 Like