Outlaw needs help please blizzard lets fix more things for 11.0.5! (EU cross post)

I have not been tracking PTR changes. But… Am I reading this right?

New Talent: Supercharger – Shiv/Roll the Bones/Symbols of Death supercharges [1/2] combo points. Damaging finishing moves consume a supercharged combo point to function as if they spent 2 additional combo points. 2-point talent.

You supercharge a +3 combo point, and it only functions as +5?
Currently, supercharged combo points function as if =7, not +2 …
And it’s a 2-point talent?

Seems like big tax for small gains.
Seems like even more randomness in the kit.
Can I supercharge a +7 to +9?
How will it feel to see a +3 blue vs a +6 blue?
Will I be happy to engage with it?
Or will it feel like pulling a slot-machine arm every time?
Or is that the point–this game is simply designed now for gamba?


Trying to be positive:
Echoing Reprimand is being redesigned as a situational Unceasing Chain Link (Torghast power). I like that, but everything is built around the obnoxious loop of hitting the blue button instead of the natural loop of:
max your CPs and spend

Hitting the blue button is fine, if all the random point generation is removed and we’re slowly building again. Especially real when Broadside procs and you simply cannot land on even/odd sometimes, regardless of play. (If evens=2k, odds=2k-1, then min-2 cannot guarantee even-to-odd transition, it’s simple math.) Slowing generation also kills the flow of resource-spend critical builds (like Bonezz points out about AR needing 90% uptime, from RB), and should not happen unless significant buffs are planned to compensate.

So then what seems to make the most sense is that supercharging should continue to function as =7 and Echoing should simply be whenever 5+ spend with an internal cooldown and reset ICD when hitting a supercharge (like how Summarily Dispatched operates). This keeps the spirit of the talent alive, as a reward for hitting the blue button, but limits some of the degenerate scenarios where the talent is quite literally a zero-gain event.

Seems smoother. Seems more welcoming.
Quite obviously easy to learn, though still being hard to perfect.

As it stands now though, hard to learn, and harder to perfect.
(Or simply skip it entirely–feels like an “I told you so” in the works…)


Afterthoughts:
If ER damage is huge? Maybe it won’t matter. But knowing Blizzard, and the opportunity to back-to-back on a 2x supercharge, the damage will be “nice, cool, wow, that’s non-zero ig?” instead of “feels good.” Also, the competing choice talent being a small +1 combo point delta means ER damage will most likely feel lethargic on its own. (I’m not particularly motivated by a +0.5% delta at the end of a 5-minute fight–I would rather have each button press feel great, and if I need to land a supercharge, I want it to feel better than a normal spend. That’s just not how it’s designed though. It’s a forgettable event, despite being locked behind a struggle against class design.)

2 Likes

People are aware the energy has to be fixed for the spec to function properly again. But the other cap stones need to be able to breathe more. BlizZard for some reason holds onto balance decisions made with GSW from 2 expansions ago which makes no sense which is why it is so under powered. Same with Kspree as it has been under powered since the start of Legion.

I did a lot of testing and supercharger is a lot of busy work to reach the same point as just having a seven combo point finisher in most instances. Not really worth it because super charger where you can use the extra charged combo points to its max potential is super rare and so infrequent.

ER the damage is tuned too low but if the damage was tuned higher it is just an extra yellow attack which again isn’t going to move the needle to compel people to pick it up.

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

5 Likes

To be clear, there are no “charged CP” anymore. Supercharger does not use any particular CP, it simply buffs your next two finishers to act is if they had consumed 2 (3 talented) more CP.

It is implemented in a confusing way both visually and text wise, but that is how it works. After pressing RtB, your 1/2 CP will light up. This is simply indicating that you have two supercharged CP, not that you need to consume these specific combo points. Your next two finishers will be buffed.

What this means is that its not likely that these supercharger CP count towards finisher rules meaning they will be basically entirely passive, just buffing the damage of your next two finishers by a bit. The talent is also more expensive then ER was (it takes an additional point to get the full power as many have noticed).

3 Likes

That’s better than the monstrosity I was hallucinating between how ER works now and what’s described on the PTR note, and an audible sigh of relief. Thanks for setting me straight.

Seems in line with a class tree endpoint. Mostly forgettable but somewhat enticing.

I am still expecting the damage to be undertuned for what the extra combo point provides overall (the cooldown reductions, extra flags, etc. listed on the dev note). But at least it provides an option to shift a little back towards gen damage instead of spend.

1 Like

Aw, really? Ugh. Figures Blizzard would find ways to make it worse.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait.

I thought the whole argument about Echoing Reprimand was it not giving us the benefit for a seven-point spender in terms of Restless Blades, etc.

This is a nerf.

1 Like

Sorry to be clear, the intention is for this to give us cdr on the extra CP spent, just like ER does on live (it was fixed awhile ago). I just meant it buffs your next finishers as in it makes them count as +2 cp each in terms of all the benefits you get. You don’t need to land on certain CP and its unlikely to change finisher rules at all like ER does.

2 Likes

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

1 Like

issuse is hunters way easier to play than rogue so now that rogues kinda meh right now less and less people are gonna play it

3 Likes

Maybe add super charger to blade furry? We kind of already pre pop that on pulls and it’s somewhat a free spam ability. Can always create a cancel blade furry macro too if you really don’t want to cleave.

Side question, am I the only one who wishes blade furry didn’t break stealth? Qol change to be able to pre use it in stealth before pulling a mob. Especially in solo content.

1 Like

Blade furry doesn’t break stealth for me. It’s my hero talent that breaks stealth when I have something targeted and use many of our pre-pull abilities (they all just flip that coin).

What breaks stealth for me is pre-potting.

Blade flurry breaks stealth now because it has a damage component attached to it. You could blade flurry in older versions and not break stealth if I recall (eg WoD?). In WoD it was a toggle that you could turn on while in stealth and before opening on targets.

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

1 Like

OMG i miss the days when it was just a toggle on or off. I swear every time I am about to press killing spree, blade furry fades just then.

They added this damage component to supposedly make it feel better when you press the button. IDK if anyone actually feels better with that tiny initial damage. I say no damage when stealthed then damage when out. simple fix.

2 Likes

If you take the talent point out of crackshot and put it into GSW, you still have a spec that functions well. Idk where all this energy stuff came from. While its true the energy needs to be looked at, you can “just buff GSW” and it would work just fine. You’d still be playing around subt windows but thats not a GSW but a problem for the spec as a whole.
If we were to make stealth less powerful then yes, youd have to fix energy. But as of now, buffing GSW works.

Go to a dummy and test it. My adr uptime is very high in dungeons because my cdr doesnt really take that big a hit.

1 Like

can we not. the toggle was the worst iteration of blade flurry. because you are still wasting a global to even push it. just get better at tracking the duration. or spec into dancing steel. a better idea is if they wanna keep killing spree a finisher they should make it like shadow techniques and just have a clone do the move instead of you being animation locked.

Should be used almost constantly as a builder in most situations you’d even want blade flurry up any way.
Bit baffled why people wanna go backwards with this one…

1 Like

The reason being anytime you attach a damage component to a CD it becomes difficult to manage or you have less utility to use. Especially for Rogues where they rely on stealth openers.

In this case you can not pop BF while in stealth anymore.

A talent like Underhanded Upper Hand somewhat helps with this as it helps hold the duration of AR and BF while in stealth.

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

You’re doing heroic dungeons which is literally irrelevant because in an actual key you’re not getting to restealth every 5 seconds because the packs not dying instantly.

1 Like

Just because im slow to start doesnt mean i dont know what im talking about lmaooo. Sim it and see for yourself. Thats such a non-arguement idek why im responding.

It is because Outlaw sims are not setup to be realistic but to find gear upgrades. It assumes 100% uptime, doesn’t low roll rng, and assumes completely equal buff uptime of every single buff so yes, it’s irrelevant. In a real situation, you will absolutely be suffering in any dungeon where packs live long enough to outlast your subterfuge duration.

5 Likes

No, youre getting restealths because you still have insane CDR.
Yes I know outlaw sims arent 100% accurate.

1 Like