I returned to my Rogue for the expansion and it’s been a super fun class, probably the most enjoyable out of all the other classes I have played. However the one thing I have been having a huge problem with is Thistle Tea, more specifically the automatic use of it.
I like Thistle Tea as a cooldown, I enjoy using it with my rotation but it’s frustrating because I want to trickle it but I can no longer do that, one of my favorite things to do in this game is theory craft new rotations, builds and talent setups. Sometimes they work
really well but more often they don’t so I am constantly adjusting. To have a cooldown that I have no control of anymore is just beyond frustrating.
I know this is brought up topic before and I am not trying to beat a dead horse, not saying I speak for everybody with sentences like “Nobody liked this change”, not gatekeeping people who do like auto tea, I just want to hear the thoughts of everybody who is in the same boat as me who just really wish we had a selectable talent node or a glyph to opt out of auto tea.
Auto thistle tea is actually nice on Outlaw and Sub.
The problem is for Assassination as it clashes too much because Assassination is about using your energy to create peaks and valley in your rotation which means you are using all energy to set up Envenoms by dumping into Rupture, Mutilate, etc then pooling energy.
Auto thistle tea messes up the entire rhythm and timing of this for Assassination. Worse, Assassination is the spec that really relies on mastery to really pump damage at the right time.
So for that reason it needs to be a choice node of passive versus auto. To an extent Sub could use Thistle tea for the mastery too to line things up for interesting game play.
You are correct in the sense of it is mostly a problem with Assassination, that’s where I have most of my frustrations with auto tea.
Sub I do feel still has a bit of a problem with auto tea as in I can’t line up my tea and dances at the same time anymore and it throws off my Secret Technique rotation and it feels a little prevalent in PvP such as lining up as much burst as you can in a “full go cycle” because dance and technique get lower cooldowns by spending combo points it’d be nice to be able to trickle my tea for this use, It’s not the most important thing and pretty niche but I feel like it still helps enough to get used to doing.
You are also correct on Outlaw but I don’t think a lot of outlaw builds really even spec tea, and if they did I think auto tea is really really nice to have due to nothing really lines up with it properly and it’s just an extra 300 energy.
I have to slightly disagree with this. Assassination is designed to have the energy problems it has and it’s still one of the top leading specs according to WoWlogs and other analytic sites. Rogue needs the drawbacks it has and I think Thistle Tea is fine but the fact that I lost control of it is what really makes me annoyed. Thistle Tea is rewarding when used properly, getting full use of the 100 energy and the mastery buff with your other cooldowns feels nice. Adding another energy passive just seems like a solution to help remove energy entirely and just have Rogues cast everything for free.
Assa used to have relentless strikes and venomous wounds as the only energy talents in the past and the gameplay on single target felt much smoother and enjoyable than now. You still had to wait for energy sometimes, but not for ages like now. And I don’t remember anybody complaining about energy. But as it is now waiting 5 seconds between each button press is just awful + we have to always pick 5 different energy talents that are scattered across talent trees and its still not enough - fighting bosses feels so horrible.
I don’t like Thistle Tea being the bandaid solution for energy regen - its not a good or fun ability to press in general, even if they revert the auto proc change, it will still feel awful and we have more button bloat. Those talents should stay in the classic wow.
It’s like telling Mages to pool mana and use Mana gem in 2025 wow. Or telling the Warlock to use old Life Tap ability.
Thistle tea as it is right now is like Slice and Dice. Nobody would miss those abilities if they were gone, but developers for some stupid reason keep returning them back - thus making Assassination design going backwards, while other classes are evolving.
Relentless strikes is a simple solution to lower the awful 5 seconds downtime between each attacks on ST once you’re out of Thistle Tea. The Downtime will still be there, but will not feel that bad to play. In the process Thistlea Tea could be simply removed from game.
Another possible solution that came into my mind is to return the Old Dispatch ability (blindside) as a baseline for the spec and keep the auto-proc chance for it, maybe buff it to 25 or 30%. This will also lower the downtime between attack by a huge margin and it will also feels nice to play with the old execute ability back in rotation.
No it doesnt. Literally no other class deals with the arbitrary manufactured problems that reduce the classes enjoyment to this extent.
Youre delusional.
You know what would feel nicer? Having that energy already baked in and having something in place that would prevent you from having to stop pressing buttons for 3 seconds after every mutilate outside of CDs. That is objectively unengaging, counterintuitive to the current game design, and entirely unfun.
How would having Relentless Strikes allow you to cast everything for free? If youre gonna comment at least put some thought into it. You lack knowledge of the class yet keep commenting as if you have a solid grasp of everything.
Ive been calling for its removal since DF Alpha its insane seeing people here still defend it vehemently. Always players that dont know Rogue.
You misunderstand my statement, and disagreement, Rogue as of now is in a insanely good spot for both M+ and raiding, but this isn’t about changing Rogue, If I wanted to talk about changing Rogue, I would say, Deathstalkers Mark needs more ways to be applied and Thistle Tea would need a massive rework or replacement, If they make Assassinations energy regen too good it would absolutely dominate the roster, invoking nerfs and possibly running the risk of making it feel even worse then Thistle Tea. Why I used the word slight in my disagreement is pretty much, I think Rogues are in an ok spot overall, they don’t really need massive changes, I agree it would feel nice and probably play better but it would shake up the seasons balance too much.
I mean Rogue is preforming pretty high on the charts so I can only assume the classes that aren’t preforming as well must have some drawback, either if it’s just low damage numbers, RNG proc based or just flat out unpopular, but truthfully I only play 2 classes so I don’t know in detail.
I think lining up a shiv, tea, amp poison, darkest night proc to crit a 22 million envenom while having the energy I got to reapply garrote and rupture before tea and shiv fade feels pretty nice. But I do agree running out of energy and staggering yourself is unfun.
You read between the lines, I chose my words carefully saying “a solution to help” as in not a definitive, but it takes a step closer to that direction. Relentless strikes which would give us 5 energy per combo point which is 35 energy per combo point spender with Stratagem Talents flat out removes the energy cost of envenom which is 35 energy and gives you 10 more energy back from rupture which is 25 energy, which is pretty much just remove the energy cost of those abilities. I don’t have a solid grasp on this class and I admit I have a lot to learn but you insulted, insinuated and downplayed. No one is defending anything, my statement is Rogue is in a good spot and major changes now would be very unhealthy for the current season of the game. So this is not about Rogue reworks, this is about the specific of an ability change that we should at least have a choice over, If I wanted to talk about major Rogue changes for next season I would talk about Deathstalkers Mark and how it should be applied with more then just Ambush from stealth / Subterfuge along with buffs to the energy regen from Venomous Wounds and then a rework or a replacement to Thistle Tea.
This is literally how Sub functions and there are 0 issues. The energy cost is still there, if you dont have it youll still need to build. After using a finisher you absolutely should be able to go right into the next builder especially on a spec that can take up to 3 button presses to max CP because of Mutilate RnG. And we havent even talked about how the lack of Relentless hinders Feint usage. If Sub didnt have it and you suddenly had to use Feint, youd be dead.
Rogue isn’t in a good spot. No one is really playing rogue. The amount of effort that you need to put into the spec, doesn’t equal the damage that it can pump out.
The only people playing rogue are those at the top and, and that’s gonna skew the statistics. Rogue can pump, but you shouldn’t need to be an F1 driver to go to the grocery store.
Personally I won’t play it anymore even though it was my first toon. I love my rogue, but if feels like crap compared to other specs.
I don’t think relentless strikes goes far enough for how to get rogue into a better spot. They are a builder spender class that you have to spend on your finishers and CDs. If you want to fix sin, you gotta remove the energy cost of finishers and rebalance around that. The defensive should have a cost either, even if it’s a minimal one.
I’m addition, sin needs a way to enter stealth more than vanish. Change vanish into a cloak plus stealth, plus drop combat (think turbo charged shadowmeld) and turn shadowstep into an enabler. You didn’t get to drop combat, but you get access to your stealth buttons for 6 seconds. Assassination is fixed.
It should have always been an option via talent point to have it auto or manual. That’s provided we want it to exist at all. And let’s be honest the energy pooling should have been fixed akin to mana a long time ago.
We shouldn’t need anything fixing the energy flow, the energy flow shouldn’t be broken.
