One Thing To Keep In Mind About The 58 Boost

[Wilburr-herod]

@Ironchain-herod

Anyone who isn’t playing because boosting doesn’t exist will quit a couple months into TBC because they clearly didn’t like the game enough to play it in the first place. They had to be bribed with the ability to skip a significant portion of the game.

Why do you care if they quit after playing for a few months? How does that affect you?

@Ironchain-herod

I dunno, I’d like some BiS gear. I think that might benefit me quite a lot, actually.

Are you able to get to your Vendors in the sky?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Druidzilla-rattlegore

Most tbc players will use their classic toons moved from classic to tbc.

Boosts are insignificant when almost every tbc toon will be classic transfer toon.

Boosts will be only used by people who didn’t play classic

This, it seems the objections are people objecting on moral grounds or people making a mount out of a mole hill.

[Ironchain-herod]

@Wilburr-herod

Why do you care if they quit after playing for a few months? How does that affect you?

It invalidates the argument that the boosts will bring new players to TBC. If those players aren’t going to actually keep playing, the only real benefit is that Blizzard gets more money.

@Wilburr-herod

Are you able to get to your Vendors in the sky?

Are people buying boosts incapable of getting to level 58?

Would it better if I changed my analogy to be “vendors that sold BiS for 100k gold” to allow room for legitimate players to obtain it while primarily benefitting the people who are capable of generating thousands of illegitimate gold via cheating?

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Wilburr-herod

So instead of arguing against boosting, you need to get on Blizzard about botting.

Have you taken a look around? There are hundreds of threads about Blizzard’s lack of action against bots. THEY DO NOT CARE. I don’t know what else it would take to convince people that Blizzard couldn’t care less about bots in the game. They can make all the annual “We’re fighting bots everyday!” posts they like. But anyone who logs in and sees the same reported bots for weeks and months knows this is just posturing on their part.

They do not care. They are not going to invest one single penny into fighting bots. This is what pisses me off about the whole boosting thing. If they were going to take some of those profits and invest in GM’s or a better system than Warden, it wouldn’t get under my skin as much.

But that’s not going to happen. Boosting will make the botting problem even worse. All that extra bank is going to go straight into the CEO’s 30 million dollar a year pay check.

The whole thing just stinks.

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

This, it seems the objections are people objecting on moral grounds or people making a mount out of a mole hill.

Don’t start with me Ziryus!

[Voidarcane-whisperwind]

@Bodicca-westfall

There are hundreds of threads about Blizzard’s lack of action against bots.

The fastest way to results is banning people who buy gold. Go hard and harsh on the 2nd and later offenses. They need a 0 tolerance stance like FFXIV which perma ban accounts the 2nd or 3rd offense of buying.

They also need more GM’s, maybe having players who are trusted (through reports that have been proven correct) push suspicious activity with a report to the eyes of an actual GM for faster action.

[Wilburr-herod]

@Ironchain-herod

It invalidates the argument that the boosts will bring new players to TBC. If those players aren’t going to actually keep playing, the only real benefit is that Blizzard gets more money.

You think 100% of the people that boost will quit? Yes some will but not all which will add new players. I personally know 3 people that did not play Classic but will play TBC because of the boost.

@Ironchain-herod

Are people buying boosts incapable of getting to level 58?

Everyone is able, but some don’t want to spend weeks playing a game to get to the point where they can then start playing with there friends. Boost eliminates that.

Going back to your botting argument. That is the only some what good reason anyone has against boosting. So from what you and a lot of other people are saying. If they fix bots you are fine with boost.

Unless you are just some elitist POS, and if that is the case, then at least own it instead of hiding behind weak arguments.

[Ironchain-herod]

@Voidarcane-whisperwind

The fastest way to results is banning people who buy gold. Go hard and harsh on the 2nd and later offenses. They need a 0 tolerance stance like FFXIV which perma ban accounts the 2nd or 3rd offense of buying.

They also need more GM’s, maybe having players who are trusted (through reports that have been proven correct) push suspicious activity with a report to the eyes of an actual GM for faster action.

I don’t disagree with any of this (exception the hilarious “0 tolerance” translating to banning on 2nd or 3rd offenses, meaning there is tolerance of it).

However, you have to consider Blizzard’s perspective here. What is easier to do? Remove the 58 boost, or spend millions more dollars a year on hiring GMs to actually enforce the rules?

There’s a very tangible change that is being asked for when we say we want the 58 boosts removed. Saying “Blizzard needs to do something about the bots” is nebulous garbage that will get nowhere.

@Wilburr-herod

You think 100% of the people that boost will quit?

Not what I said. Pay attention.

I said anyone who ONLY plays because boosts are added will quit. Yes, 100% of them.

Anyone who would keep playing the game would’ve have kept playing whether boosts were added or not.

@Wilburr-herod

I personally know 3 people that did not play Classic but will play TBC because of the boost.

They’ll be gone before SSC is out.

@Wilburr-herod

Everyone is able, but some don’t want to spend weeks playing a game to get to the point where they can then start playing with there friends. Boost eliminates that.

They can play with their friends whenever they want. I dunno if you’re aware, but max levels can play with lower levels. In fact, it happens quite a lot.

@Wilburr-herod

If they fix bots you are fine with boost.

Nope. Boosting has plenty of other problems. Botters taking advantage of it is just one of them, and arguably the most significant argument against it.

@Wilburr-herod

Unless you are just some elitist POS, and if that is the case, then at least own it instead of hiding behind weak arguments.

Do you even know what elitist means? Nothing I said was even remotely “elitist.”

[Voidarcane-whisperwind]

@Ironchain-herod

I don’t disagree with any of this (exception the hilarious “0 tolerance” translating to banning on 2nd or 3rd offenses, meaning there is tolerance of it).

Probably should clarify 0 Tolerance on the 2nd or 3rd offense. I’ve never bought gold in Classic, but when I came back in Legion I bought gold once (50k) and got a stern warning from Blizzard and never bought gold again. (I came back in Legion after leaving in Cata and couldn’t recover my old account and seeing how expensive everything was and not knowing about the WoW Token foolishly bought gold).

@Ironchain-herod

However, you have to consider Blizzard’s perspective here. What is easier to do? Remove the 58 boost, or spend millions more dollars a year on hiring GMs to actually enforce the rules?

There’s a very tangible change that is being asked for when we say we want the 58 boosts removed. Saying “Blizzard needs to do something about the bots” is nebulous garbage that will get nowhere.

Well if bots are buying boosts all the time when they get banned Blizz can re-allocate that money to hiring more GM’s to combat the bots.

Or have a trust system sorta like the forums where trusted people’s reports get immediate attention (within 24 hours) by GM’s.

Or have volunteer GM’s (who also need to have high trust) who can possibly issue suspensions on bots (that are short and only for that one character) for a Blizz GM to review and take further action.

[Wilburr-herod]

@Ironchain-herod

Yes, 100% of them.

You are just wrong here, simple as that.

@Ironchain-herod

They’ll be gone before SSC is out.

Again, you are just wrong.

@Ironchain-herod

They can play with their friends whenever they want. I dunno if you’re aware, but max levels can play with lower levels. In fact, it happens quite a lot.

You are right, but can my lvl 34 friend come raid with me? Can they do Arenas with me? Can we run Heroics together? No they can’t.

@Ironchain-herod

Nope. Boosting has plenty of other problems. Botters taking advantage of it is just one of them, and arguably the most significant argument against it.

What are some of your other reasons against boosting then?

@Ironchain-herod

Do you even know what elitist means? Nothing I said was even remotely “elitist.”

Give me your other reasons then. If you are unable, then you are being elitist.

[Bryck-ashkandi]

The only issue i would have with boosting is if it’s allowed on FRESH accounts with 0 60s. I think people should have at least 1 which is possible if they get in on the prepatch. Plenty will be leveling shamans / pallies good time to grind with them and fill that area with more then just those 2 classes.

[Ironchain-herod]

@Voidarcane-whisperwind

Well if bots are buying boosts all the time when they get banned Blizz can re-allocate that money to hiring more GM’s to combat the bots.

They won’t do that, though. That is proven by Classic.

They made tons of money with its release, with hundreds of thousands of subscriptions that remain active to this day. Is botting better or worse now?

@Wilburr-herod

You are just wrong here, simple as that.

You’ll see.

@Wilburr-herod

You are right, but can my lvl 34 friend come raid with me? Can they do Arenas with me? Can we run Heroics together? No they can’t.

No, but you can go level him to 70 (in TBC it’s much faster to do so, too), and then you can. You can also level with him.

@Wilburr-herod

What are some of your other reasons against boosting then?

1. Diminishes the accomplishment of achieving max level by allowing people to bypass a significant portion of the leveling process.
2. Encourages predatory business practices that take advantage of impatience and impulsiveness, and by limiting it to one per account, they’re encouraging whales to make multiple accounts and pay multiple subs to get more characters to level 58 instantly.
3. Causes greater inflation by removing a gold sink: the cost of training, buying a mount, gear, and repairs spent while leveling. It also doesn’t complete any quests, meaning people can more easily go back at max level and obtain more gold for completing the quests.
4. Causes harm to the economy by way of making profession alts immediately available to EVERYONE instead of being locked behind a leveling process that successfully deters most people.
5. Is being made available before TBC, meaning that this is effectively a boost to (just short of) max level, and people will be able to immediately access max level content.

Just a few off the top of my head.

@Wilburr-herod

If you are unable, then you are being elitist.

You really don’t know what elitist means, do you?

Elitism - “the belief that certain persons or members of certain groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their superiority, as in intelligence, social standing, or wealth; consciousness of being or belonging to an elite; leadership or rule by an elite; the selectivity of the elite”

What favored treatment have I proposed, exactly? What superiority have I claimed to possess? What rule do I have? What selectivity have I put forth?

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

@Bodicca-westfall

They are not going to invest one single penny into fighting bots.

The Major Mana potions magically jumped from 80 silver each to over 5 gold each (I even sold some for 7-8 gold each a week ago) for no reason, right?

They spend a lot of money fighting bots, your false narrative is tiring.

[Voidarcane-whisperwind]

@Ironchain-herod

They made tons of money with its release, with hundreds of thousands of subscriptions that remain active to this day. Is botting better or worse now?

They don’t make as much money as you think. Most botters register as being in places like Argentina where WoW Sub is around $2 USD.

@Delimicus-heartseeker

The Major Mana potions magically jumped from 80 silver each to over 5 gold each (I even sold some for 7-8 gold each a week ago) for no reason, right?

They spend a lot of money fighting bots, your false narrative is tiring.

Usually one of a few things happen, Bot Ban wave, or someone with deep pockets buys the entire AH out and resets the price to 5+ gold usually right before prime time for raiding so raiders who are desperate for their consumables pay more.

[Azsharion-proudmoore]

Actually I didn’t had problem with boosts till the moment I wanted to make a grp and run a dungeon. It was impossible… I started too late to play classic ( November 2020) . There were only people offering boosts for a lot of gold .
If there were a boost for a character I think it will be not that bad . I mean at least the people wich doing boosts would sink…

[Wilburr-herod]

@Ironchain-herod

Diminishes the accomplishment of achieving max level by allowing people to bypass a significant portion of the leveling process.

Getting to max level isn’t an accomplishment, it is just a time sink.

@Ironchain-herod

Encourages predatory business practices that take advantage of impatience and impulsiveness, and by limiting it to one per account, they’re encouraging whales to make multiple accounts and pay multiple subs to get more characters to level 58 instantly.

Why do you care what other people do with there money? If they want to spend money on multiple accounts then let them, it’s there money.

@Ironchain-herod

Causes greater inflation by removing a gold sink: the cost of training, buying a mount, gear, and repairs spent while leveling. It also doesn’t complete any quests, meaning people can more easily go back at max level and obtain more gold for completing the quests.

This is a good point, but I feel like that there is so much gold already running around in Classic that this is kinda a none issue. I feel the bonuses of the boost outweighs this.

@Ironchain-herod

Causes harm to the economy by way of making profession alts immediately available to EVERYONE instead of being locked behind a leveling process that successfully deters most people.

They would still have to spend the time farming mats for the professions, or spend a lot of gold just buying them outright. Again there is so much gold floating around Classic right now this is a none issue.

@Ironchain-herod

Is being made available before TBC, meaning that this is effectively a boost to (just short of) max level, and people will be able to immediately access max level content.

This is true and that it will more less add a boost for Classic the last month or so. But again, this is a none issue that is outweighed by the positives boosting adds.

[Ironchain-herod]

@Delimicus-heartseeker

The Major Mana potions magically jumped from 80 silver each to over 5 gold each (I even sold some for 7-8 gold each a week ago) for no reason, right?

If anything, you could argue that’s because of bots inflating the economy with non-stop gold farming in instances.

There’s obviously a lot of factors, but hikes in prices like that usually follow banwaves, yes. And then they steadily drop in price until the next one.

@Voidarcane-whisperwind

They don’t make as much money as you think. Most botters register as being in places like Argentina where WoW Sub is around $2 USD.

Okay? I was talking about the actual legitimate players that Blizzard gained by releasing Classic.

And bots buy those subs in incredible quantities (due to those accounts being banned, needing more accounts to bypass the 30/day restrictions, etc).

The fact they can buy subscriptions so cheaply is what makes it such a strong incentive for botters to do it, especially if they can get to level 58 instantly and make enough gold to pay back that $2 even faster.

Don’t forget the level 58 boost is a service you’ll have to pay for, too.

@Azsharion-proudmoore

Actually I didn’t had problem with boosts till the moment I wanted to make a grp and run a dungeon. It was impossible

It’s not impossible. You probably just gave up after 10 minutes of trying.

Also, considering leveling outside of dungeons. How do you think we did it when Classic first launched? There weren’t dungeon groups for us because there weren’t enough people at our level to even form a group.

The leveling process is entirely soloable, and that’s by design.

@Wilburr-herod

Getting to max level isn’t an accomplishment, it is just a time sink.

Nonsense. Is a college degree not an accomplishment? Years of military service? Rank 14?

@Wilburr-herod

Why do you care what other people do with there money?

It’s not other people, for one. I despise boosts, but if they exist, I will be compelled to make use of them to remain competitive. It affects me personally.

@Wilburr-herod

This is a good point, but I feel like that there is so much gold already running around in Classic that this is kinda a none issue.

I disagree.

I made this argument before in another thread, but I’ll repeat it here:
If we ban 1 bot a day, but 2 bots are made each day, should we just not ban bots since the creation of bots outpaces their banning?

No, of course not. If you stop banning bots, the problem gets worse. Just because it’s already bad doesn’t mean you should abandon all efforts to make it better.

@Wilburr-herod

They would still have to spend the time farming mats for the professions, or spend a lot of gold just buying them outright. Again there is so much gold floating around Classic right now this is a none issue.

The time is the deterrent, not the gold. I could afford to make about 1,000 level 375 tailors… if I had the time to get 1,000 level 50s.

With a boost, time is not a factor… only the depth of my wallet. Again, it’s a predatory practice, and it shouldn’t be encouraged.

@Wilburr-herod

This is true and that it will more less add a boost for Classic the last month or so. But again, this is a none issue that is outweighed by the positives boosting adds.

What exactly are the positives that you keep referring to?

Some people get to Outlands faster?
Some people play for a little bit before quitting?

If you’re willing to pay real life money to play the game less, and otherwise would not play it at all, I can’t imagine the game interests you all that much.

[Wilburr-herod]

@Ironchain-herod

Nonsense. Is a college degree not an accomplishment? Years of military service?

We are talking about WoW, not military service or a college degree. What are you even talking about now?

@Ironchain-herod

Rank 14?

Rank 14 is just a time sink.

@Ironchain-herod

It’s not other people, for one. I despise boosts, but if they exist, I will be compelled to make use of them to remain competitive. It affects me personally.

You need to have better self control then. I can’t help you there.

After those 2 responses. I’m done.

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

@Ironchain-herod

If anything, you could argue that’s because of bots inflating the economy with non-stop gold farming in instances.

Yeah, maybe. I just wonder how much raw gold bots actually contribute to the economy. I feel like raids would be the primary cause of gold inflation. Maybe I’m wrong but when I was doing MC it was something like 40 gold for a clear. That’s 1,600 gold for a raid and a lot of servers had 80+ raids of MC going every week.

[Delimicus-heartseeker]

Pagle currently has 10 Hunters in Dire maul, 20 characters in Stratholme; 27 in Silithus and 34 in Winterspring. All different guilds and classes, they don’t look like bots at first glance.

Pagle is the most populated server by far. There’s thousands of people online and it’s likely that very few of those characters I just listed off are bots. How many bots on the most popular server are farming those lucrative zones right now? 10? 20? I just have a hard time believing that Blizzard isn’t banning massive amounts of bots when looking at these numbers.

I’ve also went on different servers a couple of times to whisper unguilded Mages or Hunters in those areas. Both times I did this in the last few weeks, I whispered “test” in order for their name to appear for me to right-click report. Both people I did this too responded to me, the one person asking “what are you testing?”