Run of the mill worgen yes but these worgen we play as are human turned they never forsake their humanity and have no reason to look like they are holding in a fart all the time.11/03/2018 03:41 PMPosted by AríadníeWorgen should be intimidating.
11/03/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Synah11/03/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Axera...
I'd really prefer you read all the posts in this thread before commenting, including my responses to people who have said the same thing as you. Size difference was never something I mentioned. I mentioned body types, sure, but I also admitted that is going to be too high of a demand right now, but maybe some day.
Do you believe nature has something to do with the fact male Worgen have vicious glowing orange eyes and female Worgen have adorable puppy eyes? That is my question to you before you read the thread.
Also, to make a point about the stereotyping, do you not believe that all the male models being able to look scary, muscular and rigid being a stereotype as well? Females all looking cute/sexy/curvy are not the only issue if you want me to elaborate on sexism and stereotyping. How about we also extend this into the fact Dwarves are just Gaelic stereotypes? How about the fact Goblins are just Jersey Shore/Jewish stereotypes? It's racist af.
Maybe Worgen males hunt at night and females don't? Who's to say.
You have a problem with the differences of the sexes.
You want more "blending". That's cool.
But for many, they like being a distinguishable male or female.
That's cool also.
But what isn't cool is throwing SEXIST and RACIST around. Because you don't have that option.
Zandalari trolls: a copy of Mayan and Aztec heritage with a blending of African culture.( one of which is part of my own heritage and culture)
Do I think it's racist? No.
Why do you think?
Cause it's not offensive.
I really don't appreciate you telling other people whether or not they have the option to be offended by something or find issues in how their gender, race, body type, etc are addressed by other people.
No, I don't think Zandalari are racist because 1. they did it respectfully and 2. they aren't some cartoon fantasy. Goblins are a joke--literally a joke reference to the Jewish community and its stereotypes and the Jersey Shore aesthetic. I LIKE the concept of Goblins; the tinkery machinery stuff, their unique models, their model designs. I DON'T like that they are just making fun of people. Would you look at a Zandalari troll and say, "Man, this probably makes all the black community angry"?
Anyway, if you want to have a real discussion, please be a little less hostile. I'm honestly fed up with the ones who read one or two posts then start name-calling (not that you did) or stomping people down because they have different opinions or want to talk about a real problem they see.
Also, to add, in case you missed it, which you may have: It's okay for our opinions to be different and it's also okay for the community to want more options, not just the same thing for every female character.
I picked that line out intentionally.11/03/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Aríadníe
Did you read my whole post are are you just cherry picking a single sentance for the fun of it. Let me requote and highlight it.
Cute and sexy shouldn't be the defining features that you work around with every female character.
That sounds as if we're saying that female models shouldnt be cute and sexy to start with. Anything said after that seemed to be contrary to the point you made there.
Then you misread.
Let me clarify it for you because evidently you need the help.
Cute and sexy shouldn't be the defining features that you work around with every female character.
I'm not saying cute and sexy should be avoided or that they are necicarilly a bad thing. I'm saying that cute and sexy shouldn't be the foundation you work on with every female model.
For a worgen the foundation should be "fearsome feral wolf monster" and then work up from there. The new worgen models missed that mark compeatly.
11/03/2018 03:46 PMPosted by GurthyAnd don't play that sarkeesian tropes against women bull!@#$. It doesn't fly outside of an echo chamber unless you're fully committed to cherry picking games and parts of games.
Speaking of that lunatic.
Ive been worried since I started seeing the models in this game that Sarkeesian would dig her venomous claws into this game sooner or later.
Then again....we might be getting there with this very thread.
11/03/2018 03:45 PMPosted by ShaieThere's no way to say this without it coming out "wrong" so I will just say it. I only got a few paragraphs into your post before I scrolled back up to verify what I already suspected; you play a Blood Elf, the only "pretty" Horde race. The only "sexy" Horde race (some would argue that the Nightborne are also pretty & sexy, but I see quite a number of posts in here complaining that they are not so...) as well.
I get that your point is the males & females are different. Is that not actually a reflection of real life? Is it not also the case (except for Blood Elves lol) that males & females of other in-game races are different? Case in point - Draenei. The males are HUGE and the females are petite, EXTREMELY curvy and pretty. Again though, since we only have ONE face option to look at so far, you're getting all worked up over what may be nothing. Go back to character select & look at all the options for all the races - not just the "pretty" ones. You'll see that each race has options for females that are more worn, more aged, more angry - I'm sure that will be the case when the Worgen updates are released as well.
Those are also just ONE model - as you know, each race has several options in the creation screen for faces, hair, hair color, ears/earrings, etc. To make an entire post calling Blizzard sexist for ONE face that's been modeled is REALLY jumping the gun on things.
I don't think the new models are "sexist". In fact, I don't think the "new" models are all that new. They simply cleaned up the old models, which is FINE and really all we were asking for anyway. They made the males look like Genn though, why is no one noticing/complaining about that? (Not that I am, I like THOSE new models also.) They made the Goblin females cute too, is that sexist?
Thank you to whoever posted the photo of the wolf - it actually looks like it's smiling! I guess that photographer was sexist though, for taking a picture of a cute wolf.
I am a woman. I'm an older woman, probably old enough to be Mom to a bunch of you. I've been gaming for YEARS. Part of the gaming genre is to make females attractive to male players and it always has been. I am not offended by the "beautification" of female Worgen in the least. I AM offended by people who, upon the slightest change to something that ~might~ make it prettier/sexier/more attractive in other ways crying "That's SEXIST!!!" all the time. Knock it off already. Just enjoy the new graphics & play those races or don't.
Oh and by the way, "constructive feedback" does not consist of, "OMG you made it cute! Now only Furries will like it! You're being sexist by making a female player character look pretty/sexy!" Constructive feedback would be noting what you like, what you don't like & then perhaps giving a suggestion for how it could be changed to something you like better. But as has already been noted SEVERAL times, the last time people cried about "Pretty Worgen Females" we got the god-awful snarling Chihuahua faces that we've had to deal with for years.
Here's an example - I like the changes to the female Worgen face. I like the resting face as it's more in-line with the general disposition of the Gilnean people (they seem to be a pretty calm & contented sort). I like the blue eyes, but I hope that we have OTHER eye color options as well, such as green, brown & maybe even a blue-purple. I LOVE the golden eyes on the male worgen models, they look AWESOME in "fight mode", HOWEVER I think it would be AWESOME if all Worgen had the golden eyes WHEN THEY ARE IN FIGHT MODE. Basically, what I think would be cool is if their eyes changed to gold when they were fighting, but when at rest, they could return to their normal color. Both male & female should have the color change when fighting. Also, can we get more hair options please? And tails - the original Worgen had tails.
Unfortunately, after reading just one paragraph of your post, I was disappointed because some of the things you say in your first paragraph are literally referenced in my entire post and things that are further discussed in this thread. People who don't do their reading should not be allowed into formal discussions. So either read everything, or don't waste your time. It's unfortunate that you wasted all this time typing up a post when you didn't bother to read all of my points. Is that how you normally deal with your issues day to day? Just...making assumptions?
How rude.
11/03/2018 03:20 PMPosted by AshislashiDid you go to Argus....like at all? Remember any tall female figures with g strings?
THAT is FAR worse than a female worgens face not being 'tough' enough.
I cant even let my grandkids play this game over some of the NPC females being barely clothed.
The Shivans? Temptation, in all forms, is demons' whole thing in just about every mythology ever. Sexuality is just another facet of that, and has been for about as long as they've existed in cultural consciousness. There's a whole other discussion to be had about that, but ultimately that's the part I find difficult to object to because it's thematically appropriate to what it's portraying.
The constant sexualization of playable female characters expected to be player avatars, that's much more urgent -- especially in light of real-life power divides that get colored and often crystallized by entertainment. I think ultimately it's something that shouldn't be fully accepted or rejected. Not because "the middle" is correct, but because we're ultimately trying to portray people and they all fall in different places. Let people choose to be creepy, pretty, ordinary, whatever. The problem isn't that sexualization exists, it's that in almost every game it ends up being a pigeonhole -- male characters are always either teenage audience inserts or roided out power fantasies, and female characters are always soft-faced hourglass figures. It's one of the reasons I like the Kul Tirans: they break that up a bit.
Also this game is rated T and isn't necessarily appropriate for your grandkids to begin with. I can recall a few quests where you straight-up torture people for information, and that seems a bit more inappropriate for the kids than a scantily-clad character, playable or not. Thank you, though, for actually monitoring what your spawn are consuming -- that's part of being a parent.
11/03/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Ashislashi11/03/2018 03:28 PMPosted by AríadníeA succubus SHOULD be curvy sexy and oozing sex appeal. A werewolf however should not.
I get as an adult thats how we feel, but its either 'overt sexualization' or its not.
There wasnt any 'need' at all, in ANY way, for those succubi to be THAT scantily clad.
They look like meat for little teen boys to drool over. No need whatsoever for the gstring. None.
And this is coming from a grown man who really doesnt care either way.
but if we're going to try to cut out on the 'sexist' mentality then those got to go first.
Succubi are literal sex demons in all forms of folklore, so I would think they would be trying to use their appeal that way
And I have been perfectly fine with all of that, just pointing out that you cant have a SEXIST game while NOT having a SEXIST game.11/03/2018 03:49 PMPosted by AríadníeLet me clarify it for you because evidently you need the help.
Cute and sexy shouldn't be the defining features that you work around with every female character.
I'm not saying cute and sexy should be avoided or that they are necicarilly a bad thing. I'm saying that cute and sexy shouldn't be the foundation you work on with every female model.
For a worgen the foundation should be "fearsome feral wolf monster" and then work up from there. The new worgen models missed that mark compeatly.
Either it IS ...or it ISNT.
That you and I tolerate some level of it doesnt mean that there isnt BLATANT sexism in this or any game.
Either fight it....or dont. Dont cherry pick what you like and dont like. Someone else has different standards than you do.
ive stated a number of times that MY problem with this thread is that the OP went IMMEDIATELY to the 'sexism' card.
No one who does that in the way that the OP did deserves to even be listened to, let alone humored.
When they want to come back and make a rational argument SANS the 'cards' then fine.
Until then I think they should be ignored entirely.
yeah..I get that. Its also the body of a HUMAN female that is covered less than many Playboy models in dirty magazines are.11/03/2018 03:53 PMPosted by JohaìsSuccubi are literal sex demons in all forms of folklore, so I would think they would be trying to use their appeal that way
Either we're playing a 'sexist' game or we arent.
personally I couldnt care less either way and would have passed right over this asinine topic except I saw that 'sexist' crap in the OP.
That has no place in here or in the real world.
Argue on MERITS....not from a bully pulpit.
11/03/2018 03:49 PMPosted by Axera11/03/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Synah...
Maybe Worgen males hunt at night and females don't? Who's to say.
You have a problem with the differences of the sexes.
You want more "blending". That's cool.
But for many, they like being a distinguishable male or female.
That's cool also.
But what isn't cool is throwing SEXIST and RACIST around. Because you don't have that option.
Zandalari trolls: a copy of Mayan and Aztec heritage with a blending of African culture.( one of which is part of my own heritage and culture)
Do I think it's racist? No.
Why do you think?
Cause it's not offensive.
I really don't appreciate you telling other people whether or not they have the option to be offended by something or find issues in how their gender, race, body type, etc are addressed by other people.
No, I don't think Zandalari are racist because 1. they did it respectfully and 2. they aren't some cartoon fantasy. Goblins are a joke--literally a joke reference to the Jewish community and its stereotypes and the Jersey Shore aesthetic. I LIKE the concept of Goblins; the tinkery machinery stuff, their unique models, their model designs. I DON'T like that they are just making fun of people. Would you look at a Zandalari troll and say, "Man, this probably makes all the black community angry"?
Anyway, if you want to have a real discussion, please be a little less hostile. I'm honestly fed up with the ones who read one or two posts then start name-calling (not that you did) or stomping people down because they have different opinions or want to talk about a real problem they see.
Also, to add, in case you missed it, which you may have: It's okay for our opinions to be different and it's also okay for the community to want more options, not just the same thing for every female character.
I was taking you seriously up until the point where you related the goblins to jews. Like the iconic goblin sapper was anything but a divine wind for grorious nippon. You a disgrace you a famiree!
Have they shown more than the one female face? Every race has at least one cute/innocent looking face option for the females. They all also have some more fierce/weathered looking options. I'll reserve judgment until we see them all.
I do think the new face is a vast improvement.
I do think the new face is a vast improvement.
11/03/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Sevaryn11/03/2018 03:20 PMPosted by AshislashiDid you go to Argus....like at all? Remember any tall female figures with g strings?
THAT is FAR worse than a female worgens face not being 'tough' enough.
I cant even let my grandkids play this game over some of the NPC females being barely clothed.
The Shivans? Temptation, in all forms, is demons' whole thing in just about every mythology ever. Sexuality is just another facet of that, and has been for about as long as they've existed in cultural consciousness. There's a whole other discussion to be had about that, but ultimately that's the part I find difficult to object to because it's thematically appropriate to what it's portraying.
The constant sexualization of playable female characters expected to be player avatars, that's much more urgent -- especially in light of real-life power divides that get colored and often crystallized by entertainment. I think ultimately it's something that shouldn't be fully accepted or rejected. Not because "the middle" is correct, but because we're ultimately trying to portray people and they all fall in different places. Let people choose to be creepy, pretty, ordinary, whatever. The problem isn't that sexualization exists, it's that in almost every game it ends up being a pigeonhole -- male characters are always either teenage audience inserts or roided out power fantasies, and female characters are always soft-faced hourglass figures. It's one of the reasons I like the Kul Tirans: they break that up a bit.
Also this game is rated T and isn't necessarily appropriate for your grandkids to begin with. I can recall a few quests where you straight-up torture people for information, and that seems a bit more inappropriate for the kids than a scantily-clad character, playable or not. Thank you, though, for actually monitoring what your spawn are consuming -- that's part of being a parent.
I think I love you. This was beautifully put.
11/03/2018 01:51 PMPosted by MergoWould much rather have this.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/d6b2f869cb9cf06b26037b83bc7a08d9/tumblr_phlcvkY08o1xdit5yo1_1280.png
Nailed it! That's a simple adjustment that really creates parallel between the male/female characters.
11/03/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Ashislashiyeah..I get that. Its also the body of a HUMAN female that is covered less than many Playboy models in dirty magazines are.11/03/2018 03:53 PMPosted by JohaìsSuccubi are literal sex demons in all forms of folklore, so I would think they would be trying to use their appeal that way
Either we're playing a 'sexist' game or we arent.
personally I couldnt care less either way and would have passed right over this asinine topic except I saw that 'sexist' crap in the OP.
That has no place in here or in the real world.
Argue on MERITS....not from a bully pulpit.
at first i thought you were a troll. but then i saw you trolling trolls who were trolled into try to troll trolls who in turned got trolled by trolls trolling trolls.
This is why we can't work with women btw. Because if one guy gets uppity, we kick him out of the commune for being a lazy bum, like Bernie Sanders. If a woman gets uppity, if you kick her out for being uppity she only grows in strength because now idiots will believe in the sexism card, since everyone knows you can't be sexist towards men because patriarchy, which is actually just a conspiracy theory for the rich and educated (mostly) white people.
Anyway, as I failed to state previously, I love the goblins. Goblins and worgen, actually my favorite races. Trolls are disappointing because they're not cannibals. Undead are cool but they don't compare. Not enough nips. I tried to agree with you, OP. I really tried. But you have shown yourself to be a silly sot who views life through polarized and racially filtered lenses, and i pity you for that.
May god have mercy on your soul.
No, I don't think Zandalari are racist because 1. they did it respectfully and 2. they aren't some cartoon fantasy. Goblins are a joke--literally a joke reference to the Jewish community and its stereotypes and the Jersey Shore aesthetic. I LIKE the concept of Goblins; the tinkery machinery stuff, their unique models, their model designs. I DON'T like that they are just making fun of people. Would you look at a Zandalari troll and say, "Man, this probably makes all the black community angry"?
Uhm, that sounds like a bit of racist projection there, not gonna lie.
Goblins in mythos are meant to be mischievous and greedy creatures, usually far more evil and violent than we get in WoW. They originate in mountains where ore and jewels are found and are an off-shoot of gnomes/faeries/kobolds (depending on the region of origin).
Feminist propaganda essay. It smells like something in here....
Social justice.
The models were fine before. They'll be fine later. The level of outrage people have over trivial video game stuff is hilarious. And sad. I envision you sitting there, being ALL SERIOUS, furiously typing away because that JERK on the internet is SO WRONG about these dog faces!!
I worry for my species' future. These nerds have breakdowns over video game dog-eyes and female representation.
And please, don't come back at me about how you're so passionate about your hobby and all of this faux-outrage is perfectly reasonable and that I should get out of your thread. Call up an old friend and go out for a drink. Maybe give your number to a guy or something.
Social justice.
The models were fine before. They'll be fine later. The level of outrage people have over trivial video game stuff is hilarious. And sad. I envision you sitting there, being ALL SERIOUS, furiously typing away because that JERK on the internet is SO WRONG about these dog faces!!
I worry for my species' future. These nerds have breakdowns over video game dog-eyes and female representation.
And please, don't come back at me about how you're so passionate about your hobby and all of this faux-outrage is perfectly reasonable and that I should get out of your thread. Call up an old friend and go out for a drink. Maybe give your number to a guy or something.
If the female worgen looked like the male I wouldn’t be as nearly interested to play as one. Just honestly. I like the model that they have shown us. I like that she looks like a wolf, she isn’t snarling, her eyes are not yellow tinted, her chest is smaller.. everything that bothered me about the appearance of the model has been addressed.
I like her more with her current eyes than a glowing eye effect too.
I like her more with her current eyes than a glowing eye effect too.
11/03/2018 03:54 PMPosted by AshislashiAnd I have been perfectly fine with all of that, just pointing out that you cant have a SEXIST game while NOT having a SEXIST game.11/03/2018 03:49 PMPosted by AríadníeLet me clarify it for you because evidently you need the help.
Cute and sexy shouldn't be the defining features that you work around with every female character.
I'm not saying cute and sexy should be avoided or that they are necicarilly a bad thing. I'm saying that cute and sexy shouldn't be the foundation you work on with every female model.
For a worgen the foundation should be "fearsome feral wolf monster" and then work up from there. The new worgen models missed that mark compeatly.
Either it IS ...or it ISNT.
That you and I tolerate some level of it doesnt mean that there isnt BLATANT sexism in this or any game.
Either fight it....or dont. Dont cherry pick what you like and dont like. Someone else has different standards than you do.
ive stated a number of times that MY problem with this thread is that the OP went IMMEDIATELY to the 'sexism' card.
No one who does that in the way that the OP did deserves to even be listened to, let alone humored.
When they want to come back and make a rational argument SANS the 'cards' then fine.
Until then I think they should be ignored entirely.
Please quote where I ever said the game was 'sexist' or that 'sexism' was the issue.
My issue is, and has always been, lack of diversity and noticably unimaginative character design with female models compared to the male counterparts.
I like the new female worgen model. I don't want to be snarling all the time. I hope they change the chain-smoker voice too.
TLDR of this whole thread. We're almost all in agreement that we just need more customization options. But people still need spew claims of sexism like written diarrhea. Probably because it works because so many people are cowards. Just once I want someone to come out and say "we make females cute because women like being cute". This is obviously just my own anecdotes. But Literally every female I've played with plays a Belf because they want to be cute, or they play a Tauren because fem Tauren are the "relaxed and chill" looking race.