You’re 100% right, Elune being a Naaru would undo all that, and it wouldn’t even be a good thing, because Elune being a Naaru would generally be a boring idea, so nothing interesting would even come of it.
But the insinuation that Elune is a totally unique entity in the cosmology, separate from all things and unexplainable in any way? That’s not going to stand, and that’s not good. Elune will almost certainly be a First One, and all of those things you like can stay. But she isn’t going to be immune from explanation/scrutiny, and she shouldn’t be, just like nothing else should be.
I will point out that you are also wrong. Many of these cultural “lies” have been significant catalysts for scientific progression. I don’t particularly like Christians either, but the Church is responsible for some of the most significant scientific minds in human history.
Tradition and custom is not a worship of the ashes, it is the preservation of the fire. You have to understand a bit about human psychology and how we, generally, think through complex problems.
Our cognitive ability is nested in stories. Taking an abstract idea and converting it into a story format, is a process of scientific thought.
Ragnarok, for example, is not just some Doomsday Prophecy. It is the inevitability of strife and adversity. It is the death in the cycle of life, death and rebirth. Considering that the people who came up with this story lived up North, with long, dark Winters, and long, bright summers. It makes sense they would be structuring their worldview that way.
And it’s not like there isn’t any truth or value to it. You may not believe that a Giant wolf is going to eat the sun, but you should believe that spring cannot happen without a winter. That the breaking down of dead material does provide the nurturance to the Earth for future generations. You should believe that your life will have a Ragnarok, or several of them.
So the point you make of “I would never advocate for violence or forceful policy” doesn’t make this any less of a problematic, and downright ignorant take. You are going place value on something that holds people’s lives and families together? That gives communities a catalyst of bonding and shared values? You are going to place value on the wisdom of generations of your ancestors, as utterly null and void?
I mean, if they want to theorize that, fine - but I would still ask that we stop it with explaining her, and frankly the rest of the cosmology. I don’t feel that in a setting like this that debates over religion should be “settled”. The whole point of an MMO is to have a variety of cultures to select from and identify with, and then to participate in this wide expansive world filled with all kinds of people doing all kinds of different things.
Explaining and settling everything makes all of that feel small - and it sands away the very uniqueness that this setting I think should be providing. Obviously for that reason - I am not a fan of Shadowlands - and I know that the follow-up objection to this is going to be “well, too bad, Kyalin, this is where they’re going”. To which I reply “great, but I still don’t think they SHOULD be.”
You’re right; although my take is by no means not-incendiary, I should be way more careful with my wording, else I accidentally say something really heinous. I should replace all instances of the word “culture” with something like “certain belief elements of a culture.” I deeply apologize for the way that looks, and that exact line that you quote looks bad enough in that context that I’m tempted to retract my posts on it because it’s bad enough to take the rest of my post down in flames by association. I still believe what I meant, but when one phrase ends up looking that bad? That cause to reconsider, I must admit.
I can dislike elements of a culture that I believe are based on lies, but once my statements start to look like that one above, I need to stop and re-evaluate some of my choices. I apologize.
Edit squeezed in: I still vehemently oppose Kyalin’s desire to keep Elune unexplained, but the way in which I choose to express that came out awfully, was offensive, and disrespectful to others rather than strengthen the appearance of my position. I apologize to them and others as well. Throwing out phrases like “right to exist” will always be terrible when discussing something as trivial as why I dislike a proposed story element/direction. Disliking a cultural tendency to protect what I perceive as falsehoods is no excuse to spout such general venom all over the place at people in a gross and totalitarian way like I did. I will leave the previous posts up so as not to cover up what I wrongfully said.
My guild and I had a similar conversation the other day. How Classic feels more expansive than retail, despite it being definably smaller, with fewer customization options, fewer zones, and fewer quests.
I feel, at least in part, Classic WoW was created with worldbuilding in mind. Cata really wasn’t. Cata was more about showing the playerbase the threat of Deathwing, without much consideration of the longevity of the zones they were impacting.
We now have had Cata zones longer than Classic zones. In many of these zones, there are huge bites taken out of them. Flooded, cratered, or otherwise destroyed. Giant volcanos, tornados, or strange magical torrents sit glaringly on the landscape, often times without much explanation, serving little more than just being a big eyesore. Entire zone defining landmarks destroyed. Entire Quest chains that are one big pop culture reference instead of anything defining or unique about the zone it takes place in.
I think this is the most obvious example of how Blizzard’s strategy changed from a worldbuilding framework to a raw content framework. I certainly think that also ties into Blizzard’s demystifying the lore.
Defining what Elune or An’she is isn’t expanding on the lore in Blizzard’s eyes, it’s just content for us to consume. It’s a reveal quest. It’s a cinematic. It’s a short story or some lore book they can sell for 30 bucks.
I think I always knew this, but never fully identified it until I started worldbuilding my own setting for DnD. Fully with homebrew races, religions, pantheons, even plate tectonics and ocean currents. Not everything in the world needs to be known. In fact, mystery makes everything somehow more believable and immersive.
Dante incorporated Italian and Roman mythology into a Catholic story, Tolkien wanted to turn the English/Irish/Scottish mythology into a Catholic story lol
That’s actually one of my main frustrations, the lack of linguistic/accent diversity among all the Pantheons.
Denathrius should’ve have a Mid-Atlantic Accent, Kyrestia could’ve had a Greek accent, the Winter Queen could’ve been made with three models (one young, one old, one a grown woman) with each having a different accent, etc.
All the Titan Pantheon looking like Stereotypical Western European Pagan Deities (toga and all!) was so lazy lol
I get that’s how they were portrayed “traditionally” and explains the visual models of the Gnomes/Dwarves/Humans due to Titan-forged Origin
But at the same time Aggramar is ultimately the father of all Orcs via his shaping of Grond.
At least some Venthyr sound like Bela Legosi on uppers. Kinda wild how a solid portion of the English speaking world thinks Romanians sound like Hungarians because of one guy’s role in a 1931 movie.
I miss the days when the titans were the gods and made Azeroth.
The story was simple and classic.
Now it has become like Dragon Ball. There is always a bigger fish.
Power levels don’t mean anything anymore and the new season is what we saw last time except now its extra crispy.
Damn what a shame.
Well, personally speaking all this First Ones business sounds lame.
