People pretend that forming a manual group is some massive achievement. Spamming your gearscore and getting summoned to an instance adds nothing of value. It creates no meaningful social interaction. It is quite simply a complete waste of time. Good conveniences add benefits without removing things of value. Which is what RDF does.
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Nope he was the head mouthpiece. He had almost no control of what was done in Classic and even said so in his Tweets.
The actual head dev was in an interview with Mr GM and Scottejay and he said straight up, you aren’t getting RDF.
LUL.
Sucks for you
Get the hanky ready for the tears…
So an interview that predates Brian leaving by someone who worked under him and is clearly just parroting Brian’s stance.
We’ll see how it actually goes.
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This is the guy in charge of Classic WOTLK. He was an OG WOTLK dev from original WOTLK.
He says you aren’t getting RDF so you aren’t getting it.
LUL
Let the tears out.
Maybe you don’t understand the title “principle game designer.”
LUL
Well I’m sure you can find an org chart to back that up 
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LUL you are so mad right now it’s hilarious. Dreams = crushed.
Woops.
Yeah, cross realm would help. But the gate keeping in H+ makes it extremely hard to catch up an alt or as a returning player. So after the daily I’m lucky if I do 1-3 more H+ for the day and it’s a 50-50 if I get booted once the leader sees my character, if they ask my meme score before invite I don’t get invited. My damage is fine in H+ and the groups I usually am able to run there’s zero issues.
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The retail version of the tool mitigates that to some degree, the larger pool of groups and the better interface(which includes built in gear score) make it easier to just spam join requests until you get a group.
But then that is at the end of the day just RDF with extra steps.
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Retail also has M+ that has a much better progression path based on your gear… sure there’s carry’s but for the most part you won’t get gatekept like you do in classic.
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Indeed M+ in retail is actual gear progression not just a badge farm like H+.
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What did I just read when I first clicked onto this post?
The LFG tool from retail we could’ve got is far more superior than what we have now.
I’m sorry but this tool is just a watered down version of the retail LFG, its one of those classic cases of “If it aint broke, dont fix.”
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RDF was perfectly fine the way it was.
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Before entering the dungeon? Just the communication of reaching out to people and asking if they want to do x role in x group content, and other stuff that needs to be negotiated, such as gear scores, or “I haven’t done this dungeon yet, is that fine?” or “Hey, I really need this one item”, etc.
This is an area where team work can actually happen before you’re in a group with someone.
Note: I’m not saying that these kinds of interactions always happen. But they’re far more common when there’s an implicit responsibility on the group’s leader to create a “proper” group.
You mistake my meaning. The important part is that dungeon finder encourages people to be AFK. As in, not present at their PC at all. Whereas WoW’s traditional design encourages people to be more present and active in the game.
An important part of WoW’s design is to make the world feel immersive and more realistic. And seeing hundreds of zombies just sitting there, knowing that those players are alt-tabbed, or probably not even at their PC, aesthetically reduces immersion, but functionally means there are fewer people to play with.
This is still just the traitorous critic fallacy. “If you don’t like it, don’t use it.”
See my first point. The reason why it’s first and foremost of all my points is twofold:
- The convenience of instant, free and infinite teleports, on top of being able to sit AFK means that there’s less reason to use any other method of group building.
- Even if the convenience was precisely the same, point #1 means that there will be a vastly diminished number of people who have any interest in joining manually-formed groups.
These 2 points combined mean that, even if you dislike dungeon finder, you are forced to choose between using a system you dislike or consciously handicapping yourself. I don’t feel like players who want a ‘Classic’ WoW experience should be railroaded into that sort of Retail lobby-like gameplay.
Every point I listed under the first one was made because I have to deal with it. If dungeon finder was something that existed in a black box and it didn’t affect me in any way, I wouldn’t care if it was implemented. This argument has never been about trying to control other peoples’ preferences.
Statistically speaking, people playing on low-population realms, and especially dead realms are very small group, and they always have been. I’m definitely sympathetic towards their situation (I was in that situation myself in TBC), but I don’t think that the entire population’s experience should be changed so significantly just to slap a bandaid solution onto one of the many problems players on dead realms are facing.
My arguments against dungeon finder are all made in principle, which means I’m discussing the concept of dungeon finder based on it’s own merits rather than how it’s good or bad in highly specific and statistically uncommon circumstances. Dead realms are a totally different topic, and if those are specifically the people you want to help out, there are much better solutions for their problems than dungeon finder.
Anyways, my point still stands. Having separate realms with their own unique communities and cultures is a good thing. The playerbase should be spread across discrete slices because it increases immersion and has the ability to give a sense of character to the community itself.
They’re statistical outliers. I don’t want to see a system that’s bad for the game forced onto half a million players to make maybe 10,000 of them more comfortable. That is not a good reason to implement dungeon finder.
The population has not “plummeted”. The current population of the game is higher right now than it ever was in TBC or Vanilla, and it’s still very close to the absolute peak we’ve ever seen in Classic just recently at about 12% fewer players.
Dungeon finder isn’t needed any more now than it ever has been (which is not at all). The game has thrived for years now without it, and we certainly don’t “need” it now that Classic is even more successful.
I suspect it doesn’t help, but if you wanna roll on Alliance on Pagle, I’d run H+ with you. I’ve been looking forward to checking them out. I’m a pretty chill player, I don’t mind wiping and like it when the game is harder and you have to figure stuff out.
Send Forfite a mail on Pagle and we can sort it out if you decide to, but I realize a reroll to a new faction/server solely for a H+ group is probably a hefty investment. Still, I’d love to have a dedicated H+ buddy!
Not so, easier doesn’t always mean better, but in this case it’s very subjective. Whether or not you think it’s the better path entirely depends on your perspective. For those of you who don’t value the feeling that the world is alive and full of players, RDF makes complete sense! However, for those of us who have found that we prefer the opposite, RDF undermines something we hold dear.
My point here, though, is that lazy/easy wins, regardless of the values you hold, and that’s the problem with the argument of “If you don’t like it, just don’t use it.”
This has always been a question of what I want for the game, what you want for the game, and what Blizzard wants for the game.
And this hasn’t always resulted in “better”. In fact, for a lot of our modern comforts, there are strong arguments that the technological advancements that have led to them have absolutely come with significant and negative side effects. This doesn’t mean they are all universally bad and it doesn’t mean that they are all universally good. That’s also a sliding scale depending on who you are.
Yes, but most of the time it does.
That is 100% a you problem. For me rdf made the world more alive and full of players. Before rdf I was stuck in a major city spamming for a group. After rdf I’d join the queue and go out into the world to quest or farm while I waited for the queue to pop. That’s one of the reasons I want rdf. So I can go out into the world to farm and quest instead of sitting in a city spamming for a group. Everyone I knew and played with went out into the world to quest or farm while in the rdf queue. Why didn’t you?
Yeah, I don’t see that problem. I didn’t like lfr. So I didn’t use it. I didn’t like transmog. So I didn’t do it. I didn’t like pet battles. So I didn’t do them. I didn’t like some of the dailies. So I didn’t do those dailies. I didn’t like the “vehicle” quests. So unless they were required as part of a chain I didn’t do them.
I had friends that were big into achievements. I didn’t care about them but did them to help out. They almost always had to form groups manually to do achievement runs. They had no problem doing that even after rdf was in the game. It seems to me you’re making personal choices and then complaining about the choices you made.
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Hold up there, because now you’re drifting into the territory of “I should just accept and convert over to your viewpoint”, which is not the discussion I’m intending to get into. You have your reasons for wanting RDF and I have mine for not wanting it. Neither of us are alone in our believes.
My intent here is to address the fact that the “If you don’t like it, don’t use it” argument only favours those who like RDF. There is no scenario where not using RDF in a game where RDF is available remains a practical option for long. However you personally want to view that is irrelevant.
Because you want RDF and don’t care that it will become the dominant form of player group formation. That’s fine, you’re welcome to that, I think differently. There’s a cost to RDF, one that you’re willing to pay because what is lost doesn’t have value to you, but it does have value to me and I’m not willing to give it up.
Your examples of other features that you can choose to not use are not in the same category as RDF. This is what I’m attempting to communicate, and I suggest you strongly think about it. Perhaps, to help ease your mind, giving these arguments serious thought and consideration does not mean that you have to agree. I completely understand the pro-RDF argument, why you want it and why it’s important to you but I don’t agree because I value different things.
Features like LFR, achievements, and transmog do not diminish my ability to play the game the way I like if I don’t want to participate in them. RDF does do this, and I elaborated heavily on why.
This also is starting to look to be about the time I drift back out of the RDF argument. Again, give this some thought. There are a lot of good, solid arguments and perspectives for why RDF is a positive thing for the game and why it should be in, but brushing off folks who don’t want RDF simply by saying, “Well just don’t use it then!” does not make the cut.
Best of luck to you
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You just ignored every one of my arguments. You claim you want a world that is alive. I and every one I played with went out into the world more after rdf was added. If you didn’t that’s 100% a you problem. The world became more alive after rdf was added because people didn’t have to spam for a group or stare at the chat to make sure they saw someone else spamming.
As I said before, I had friends that wanted to get all the achievements. They had to manually form groups for them. They had no problem forming those groups. If they could do it why couldn’t you. If you weren’t able to manually form groups after rdf I have to wonder why. Didn’t you have any friends, or a good guild? Again it’s a you problem.
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So the basic arguments for including RDF…
- Players want it (fun)
- Fastest/Most efficient way to level
- Access to least played dungeons
- Easiest way to join/make a party
The basic arguments Blizzard has for not including it…
- Could hurt the Classic community
- Bypasses the preferred method for leveling
- Players become bored with game
- Fundamentally changes the wrath experience
So them not having it has nothing to do with the mechanics of efficiency or the players desire to have it. It’s because it goes against the game philosophy for Wrath and is a modern tool not a classic tool…
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They want to ignore that fact.
Most of the pro rdf arguments boil down to “i want it so i should have it”. They dont want to even consider the people who dont like it.
Im honestly fine with a compromise on rdf if it doesnt give anything but the group forming aspect. So no teleport, no bonus emblems, exc. Because then its truely an optional feature as it is no more efficent than a manually formed group after the group forming is done. But many of the pro rdf people are completely unwilling to compromise.
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