"Not my key, not my problem"

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

This mentality has ruined so many of my keys that it’s almost a joke. We have this thread every day, but I’ll continue to make them until Blizzard does something about it. I’ll even go out of my way to create my own WoW addon / website that BLACKLISTS players who leave keys consistently.

I ran into one today, an unnamed DH player (you know who you are) who left a perfectly 3 chestable +14 ToP because he did something stupid. Nobody called him out, the Hunter said “bro why” and he instantly left the party, no word on it, no reasoning, just left.

He then proceeds to whisper me “Not my key, not my problem”.

People like you should be banned from doing keys, period. If Blizzard does not enact some form of punishment, and we have the viable support for it, I’ll gladly create a blacklisting addon / website that handles the bad side of raiderio because this is too much.

Edit:

Adding this on as well, it’s gotten to the point where I have to not only run my own keys because I’m not a 1900 io 226 equipped Boomkin (aka not getting into anything past a 12 apparently), but I second guess myself every time I login to play because I want to play my alts, but I know if I get on one I’ll be in queue for 30+ minutes if I want to do any form of challenging content.

212 HPally? I solo healed Heroic Sludge on it, can I get into a +8? Not a chance, my io is too low on it. Can I run my own key? Sure, but it’ll take me an hour to find a tank because I randomly rolled a Spires key that I can’t get rid of and nobody wants to run.

It’s almost to the point where I don’t want to play anymore. I do keys for fun, I push keys for fun, I try to find other like-minded players who also want to push keys for fun and do higher level content - I’ve been there, done that, and I want to continue to do that but things like this happen with absolutely zero backlash.

10 Likes
2

You’re willing to make an entire website/addon instead of just getting a consistent group to run keys with… alright man

2 Likes
3

Give me a suggestion for a handful of like-minded players that are down to push keys and I’ll send it. I’ve got me, a healer, and a multi-class who prefers to DPS but can tank. We don’t have a consistent tank, we don’t have consistent DPS.

If you can find me one of those, let me know. My guild died on Mythic SLG, so I’ve been trying to find a new home for practically the entirety of 9.0.5, and my key team I ran with during BFA doesn’t play anymore.

The issue is finding people who actually have the same push mentality, and are a good culture fit. I’d gladly go out of my way to create an entire website/addon, if anything it would be a solo project that I can add to my portfolio. The issue is finding people that are willing to play and not just get boosted through content that are not part of a team already.

4

Join the club :stuck_out_tongue:

5

what about blizzard makes a way, that you have to give the key away to enter the automated queue instead of how it is now, where you get failed groups. at least having the key will tell you that they are high enough?

1 Like
6

If you were Alliance, I’d say friend me and we can run for fun and profit, provided you’re a friendly chill player. But you’re Horde, so I encourage you to try to find like-minded friendly Horde folks to run with! :slight_smile:

7

Well what do you want them to do? They could fix problems that have plagued the game for years or they could redesign the same handful of elements every 6 months for the next 15 years.

Cant have both! It takes people to remove, put back and remove spells over and over and over and over and over.

1 Like
8

my ret gets into +14s every week. /shrug

9

I mean they could just not… deplete the key? It is cancer to get an SD +15 or a NW +15 on Tyrannical week with crap affixes. I would love to destroy my keys to reroll. I mean they can’t backdown with KSM because then no one will go to SD again unless they REALLY need something from there, KSM or bragging points for having a high asf SD score.

I literally only go to crap dungeons to help out people for KSM. Aside from that I just hit the easy stuff for my vault and I am done for the week.

10

Why do we even have keys in the first place? Why can’t we just select the difficulty at the start of the dungeon

3 Likes
11

I wouldn’t mind having keys to show the level you can do/select and then you can pick any dungeon you want with said key.

Sadly i admit i will only run 1 dungeon until i get all the gear i need.

12

Pretty straight forwards.

1 Like
13

Oh man that is so overly tilting I am angry on your behalf.

I agree completely with you Serrow. I don’t have issues with leavers in of itself, rather it is the context behind it. Yes, there are examples of people leaving who are justified to do so. Those cases do not justify letting malicious leavers go unpunished. There are people who leave despite doing well, there are people who leave after one bad pull, there are people who leave to troll. People are decrying any sorts of punishments for leavers because people shouldn’t be held “hostage” (like just leave lmao), but somehow punishing the key holder is okay. It’s maddening.

4 Likes
14

Specifically, how would this punishment happen? I don’t think I’ve seen a suggestion that wasn’t overly complex or able to be abused.

15

[quote=“Irrenhaus-the-underbog, post:13, topic:929986, full:true”]

People’s issue with it is not that it would result in holding people hostage it’s that it would result in holding people hostage is a toxic environment with no gains in fact would make the content worse to punish leavers.

If someone dosent want to finish a run with you adding a punishment to make them stay won’t make them complete the run it will make them look for away around the punishment as such fake dc as your not going to punish a dc, even if you do still changes nothing as than they just afk till they can leave or hearth to town and do other stuff in group till they can leave. Those are the better options what’s really going to happen is they will tell you everything you did wrong and. A massive agruement will start. With them prob being more calm than you baiting you into saying something you should not as such can report and get you punished instead.

A punishment to leavers is not something good for the content holding people hostage somewhere they don’t want to be is only asking for more toxic environments and greater issues that will not result in a significant increase in completed run. If anything the increase to completed runs would be a result of even pickyer groups (one of the most complained about issues in m plus you would make worse) as people won’t join a group they might end up wasting even more time if it fails till there allowed to leave. They still won’t complete that failed run as no reason to.

The fundamental reason people leave in most cases is the run failed. Once the run has failed as such can’t be timed theee is no reason to complete. As there is no reason why would they stay. If you want less leavers give insentives to finish the run eg rather than valor being a all of nothing if you miss time make it so you lose 2 percent per percent over time so till 50 percent over time atill get some. Among other lesser rewards.

Yes those that leave to troll is a issue but they make up a small percent of leavers and a mass punishment is not a answer to deal with a minority. Ultimately you invited those people for that minority if you don’t like seeing that type invite those that would have a vested interest in the run. If your taking a 1500 io player to a plus 9 obv they won’t care and more likly to randomly leave.

Yes the key holder losing a key level is fine they had full power to make the group if they dint want to risk a pug don’t make a pug. They accepted the risk as such they should live with the consequences. The m plus system is made for premades not pugs. Being able to pug is a bonus but will come with issues doing so. You take that risk love with it. I would say the same to people get held hostage if there was a clear gain to doing so but there is not. Holding people hostage that dosent want to be there will not cause the result you want of them wanting to complete the key.

16

Malganis is a pretty huge server, there are aleady 18 guilds there with CE. My suggestion is to look for a guild that runs M+, and join that guild. I know how frustrating it is to be the only person in your guild interested in M+. You need to find a guild that is interested in the same things that you are.

1 Like
17

For example, I just looked up your server on raiderio, and looked at guilds there with 5/10 mythic progression, same as you. A lot of them have very few M+ runners, they are very raid oriented. But then there’s this guild which has 20+ people who are regularly running keys.

https://raider.io/guilds/us/malganis/Effortless/roster#mode=mythic_plus

You should really look into joining a guild like this with a bunch of people who are into M+ content. Your game experience will be so much better if you do.

4 Likes
18

In another thread I played around with the idea of leavers having their personal key be diminished instead. Ultimately it’s not adding anything new, merely shifting who gets the punishment. People’s reaction to the suggestion is pretty vindictive of the problem - they like the idea of blame being shifted on someone else - the key holder. It had some legitimate criticism, but ones that are minor (in my personal opinion) in the current system where key holders are punished.

This is open to context. I had a run where we were on the gauntlet in SD with about 12 minutes left? We could have timed it, but the tank decides to leave when one person died (and we had a brez for). It is possible a sanction system would have kept them there. Conversely, if a group is wiping on first boss and guy just leaves, then that’s more understandable. But see, this is a cost/benefit trade off that people should make. Just how people leave BGs all the time make this decision, so will key leavers. We’ve had sanctions on leavers in other aspects of the game just fine, so unless the punishment is really severe I don’t buy the “hostage” angle. It really comes down to how much you prioritize your costs/benefits of the run vs. punishment of leaving.

I don’t see a casual link as you have argued as to why that would be the case. At worst, no change, at best an improvement, but I see no possible way this is true. I understand how difficult it is currently, but it’s already a toxic and hyper competitive environment. You can admit that the current system is broken and offer solutions, or we can re-shuffle how it’s done to cater to more people (what we’re basically arguing for). People are partly picky because of the severe punishment key holders face. The key holders have to face all the punishments and all the time wastes of a bad key.

One of my biggest gripes to punishments key holders face is the response “create better groups” (going back to the above where it’s already hyper competitive). You’re only egging on this toxicity with this sort of answer. Well, my answer, insofar as the current environment is concerned, is join better groups. It’s really telling that the crux of this issue is that people just don’t want to face the consequences of a bad group, and they like delegating that to a minority (the key holders). You join a group, you take the risk with it. If you don’t like it, leave. Nobody is holding you hostage, you just don’t like the consequences of a group you joined. If you don’t like to be punished, join better groups or run your own key.

19

The point isn’t to force people to complete the run, rather to institute some kind of disincentive to join and then leave, which will in turn make people more selective what kind of runs they join the first place.

Currently there is no repercussion at all for someone to do what the DH in the OP did. Join whatever run, then leave for whatever reason if it suits you. If there was some kind of penalty for doing this, then people would be more picky about which runs they joined to begin with.

1 Like
20

Downgrading the leavers key would change almost nothing. Many players do not use there key ever and just join peoples groups while those joining to troll your mainly targeting would just wait till they no longer want there key to do. Might do a slight bit of good in that regard but the key holders key should also be downgraded in that case still as that is the risk of starting a run that your key will be downgraded for n the event it fails. You don’t get to get out of the cost since someone left esp as that leads to even more toxic examples happening such as I’ll kick a random player to downgrade there key as they left. Leaving and getting kicked is the same by the current system while blizzard could chance that also that still dosent prevent the group lead from going on this run is going to fail or going worse than I thought let’s try to “save” my key by afking and seeing if someone leaves, holding the group hostage in once again a more toxic environment than current where you can just leave if the environment gets toxic.

While downgrading the leavers key is still punishing people with a legit reason to leave and as such holding them hostage. Which again the issue is not the holding them hostage that matters here but the fact that now your holding them hostage in a toxic group without gain. Yes it is a toxic group to them the moment they want to leave regardless of if you agree or not. Otherwise they would still want to be there.

Your as example of the run being possible but the tank don’t want to finish it my point stands on your example dosent change it. Yes a punishment to leaving might of kept him there if it was reasonable to time but in his view it no longer was reasonable to time so no a punishment wouldent of made him finish it would of made him afk or otherwise as it’s no longer worth finishing. I would of done exactly the same as him if the run was not possible to time. Your example makes it seam like it is as possible to time but our view on that is meaningless the only persons view that matters in this example is the tank in question and obv he felt that is was not possible to time. That is assuming we got the full story and I doubt that further making the example rather bad. As for all we know the tank left since one of your dps thought it was a great idea to pull double as such it is a waste of time to keep trying if people are going to be dense as you won’t time. Furthermore sd guant dose bug often and results in the entire guant pulling each he may of seen that triggering. This was since fixed as it was in fact a result of a wep enchantment. In the end what matters is if the person in question wanted to finish the run with you adding a punishment dosent change if they want to finish the run with you it’s forcing them to. It’s not a good thing to force players to do something they don’t want to.

Saying create better groups is not being toxic it’s in fact benign realistic. The system in the end is made for premades not pugs. If you want it to work well use it correctly. If you want to pug add add risk accept that risk. Don’t ask for a system many enjoy to be changed via eg removing the key degrade punishment or otherwise since you don’t want to accept the risk. Further don’t ask for punishments added that would only further hurt the mode via adding more toxicity to the mode and wasting time of those that enjoy it. People leave runs that can’t be timed in there view since no reason to complete it’s as simple as that. Make groups that will time and the vast majority of people won’t leave. Invite people with similar interests as you and even less people will leave. Invite trolls and you will face a issue. In the end you made the group you should accept the consequences of your actions. Just like the leavers do they have to accept they wasted time in that group as well as repairs and consumables since they dint get there group well. Further adding a punishment for leaving will only result in wasting everyone’s time.

I for one instantly if a leaver punishment was added will spend a week trolling groups at least by abusing the flaws such as in your deplateing my keys case the fact that I dint leave only afkee screwing the first person who leaves. Just for the simple fact that such a easy to abuse system is bad for the game.