Zaalg argued for months that dungeon finder destroyed the game. The moment Blizzard announces they’re removing it, he flips. You can place some of the blame on posters like him (I say poster and not player, because he doesn’t even play Classic.)
There are people who pay a subscription solely to troll the forums.
One day before they announced the removal of dungeon finder, lol.
I said many times I changed my mind on the subject. But according to them having an open mind and willing to listen to all sides of an argument is a bad thing. Such is the attitude of a troll just trying to get a rile out of me. I simply report them and move on.
Imagine trying to insult someone by demonstrating they’re willing to change their stance. LOL. You can’t make this stuff up.
i feel like it’s pointless to argue on this anymore, and i think that many people will switch to private servers because of blizzard changes.
Nothing can be said that hasn’t already been said. The trolls are going to repeat their nonsense. So yeah…not much more to add to the conversation.
Sadly, it seems Brian and company are hell bent on removing dungeon finder. He doubled down on it in the wowhead article saying they’re looking at ways to ‘make manually forming a group easier’. Which is an exercise in futility. As long as that’s the only way to get into a dungeon group, it’s going to be full of elitist gatekeepers, boosters and the gdkp crowd. So fork over the gold to get into a dungeon.
Oh, you can always do them with guildies…which you can also do if dungeon finder is added. It wouldn’t have any impact on that.
So…yeah. I think private servers will get a big boost in popularity again.
This reminds me of their constant attempts to dissuade people from doing LFR, the design intent behind forcing players to log in and grind daily or fall behind, trying to remove (and then delay) flight, creating parasitic systems that exist only in an expansion…
You changed your stance one day after they announced the removal of LFD? After months (probably years if you add up all your dozens of low level posting characters) of arguing about how it destroyed the game and was an awful feature?
One day after they announced they were removing it, you changed your mind. Back to your private server now, Zaalg.
Not trying to insult you. Just showing people who you are, that’s all.
Yup, their egos continue to wreak havoc on the game.
But at least with Retail…that’s their job. To design an mmo. With a Classic server that job is already done. The game has been designed for them. So they’re actually going above and beyond to ruin the game.
The whole arguing amongst ourselves thing never really made sense to me. Especially if the devs aren’t even watching. At first I was posting threads about compromises and finding middle ground but the wowhead interview just reinforced the fact that the devs don’t give a f***. They removed RDF to sell the 70 boost. My sub expires July 11th.
Blizzard simply needs to poll the playerbase in-game. Poll players with max level characters who’ve put time into the game. Don’t let level 23 posters who don’t even play the game have a voice in the poll.
Let people who actually play the game vote on LFD. Post the results, whatever they may be and then make your decision, Blizzard.
You got it all wrong. People played classic for the emphasis on dungeons, raids, and pvp. Everything before Cata revolved around those 3 activities. There weren’t any time wasters. Want to do a TBC heroic dungeon? Do the normal version first until you have the rep to go to heroic. Now in retail, you don’t get to do dungeons/raids to progress to harder dungeons/raids. You get to do mandatory boring af daily quests if you want to progress. Quests were for leveling, and as an optional means to make money at max lvl. Retail just shoves them down peoples’ throats as a means to waste their time.
The golden age of WoW is when the, “time waster” parts weren’t considered, "time waster"s. They were just part of the game. World PvP, exploration, doing things wrong (because you, or even nobody, knew better), and just enjoying the game.
The content churn came in Wrath, as players got better and consumed the available content faster, and the design started changing to, “everyone can do everything”. Which is fine, but that’s why when we went back to Classic and TBCC many players just got bored - the, “time waster” content was now considered a, “time waster”.
we will speak of this further in 3.3.5.
What a claim!!!
There is no “community” on classic what a meme, 90% of the playerbase doesn’t even play the game, you have tanks and healers selling their service if you want to heroic spam in pug groups.
LFD will least make it easier to spam dung on alts to gear quicker without having to sit through that crappy bulletin board addon which 90% of it is RMT advertisements or services, on 20k pop servers lol.
blizzard has 0 logic at this point they just have to be trolling
Then they should have asked not for Classic, but for another version of the game, a’la Season of Mastery. RDF was part of Wrath. In some interview it was stated that the only reason why RDF came half way through the xpac was simply because it was not ready on time. Otherwise it would have been in the game at launch of Wrath.
That’s, in fact, false. RDF was actually accepted by the vast majority. It’s a big feature that shaped Wrath. Severe decline came 2 expacs later, and LFD was the least of the problems.
ALSO. PVP’ers get queue UI from anywhere in the world
ALSO PVP’ers get Cross realm.
ALSO PvP’ers get Merc mode.
Why is it okay for PvP and not PvE?
What he means that by is that argument of RDF ruining community is complete and utter BS. Community today in classic is 
. The only real community left in classic are GDKP/Boosters/Sellers and that’s it. My entire “social” experience in all these years on Classic does not go past “inv”, “whats up” & “gg ty”. No one talks. When I try, I simply get ignored or told to shut up. Retail is chattier in fact.
The content churn came at the end of Wrath perhaps, but it was kicked up at least several notches in Cata.
I know you have a hate-on for Cataclysm, but it really did start before then. Wrath brought very easy heroics - so you could just blow through them quite quickly - and even faster with LFD at the end. The raids overall were easy and not that challenging until Heroic 10/25. Blizzard designed dungeons and raids with the idea that virtually everyone would be doing them, and for the most part, they did. LFR was the final introduction that made pretty much everyone see the current raid.
Wrath was also the first time that the previous tier was largely invalidated, every time. Even in TBC when T4 content was replaced with T5 content, you still did at least Gruul for the powerful DST. Even when T6 dropped, you still did some previous bosses for the loot they provided. And even when SWP dropped, people still did at the very least BT because of how good the loot - especially Illidan’s - was. And not everyone could even do T6/SWP, and were stuck in previous tiers.
We will likely have some guilds that will do previous content, but not every lockout after they’ve already gotten most of the way through the current raid. For raids that can clear in the first week or two of the new content, that will likely be faster. Especially with split 10/25 mans. However, if they do actually make a change that combines the 10/25 man lockout so you can only do one or the other, that would be an overall positive change even if it reduced the amount of raids being run.
Progression used to be gear up in dungeons, then gear up in raids. Now in retail progression is largely tied to questing. Classic vanilla thrived because there was a lot of dungeons and raids to run and reasons to run them, from Dal’rends in UBRS and Hand of Justice in BRD, so I agree with you. There were reasons to do previous content, which meant plenty to do. The random dungeon finder alone is not what changed things, though.
At the end of both classic and now tbc classic finding players for dungeons became cumbersome. Either a RDF or a good LFG tool would help, not hurt. There is no meaningful social interaction from spamming chat.
TBC classic also suffered from only having Kara and Gruul/Mag for far too long. Then there was only SSC/TK without the ability to go to BT/Hyjal when ready. Blizzard’s tendency to draw out content until it’s boring af is more to blame than the content itself. My guild in particular would have had more fun going into SSC/TK and then BT/Hyjal when we weren’t already decked out in the previous raid tier.
Do you not know what Mythic+ is, or…?
I agree with this. LFD solved a problem that was becoming more prevalent in Wrath, and which has been a major problem since Classic started, really.
We kind of had to do that because we all blazed through the content. Even with a scuffed first week (and, honestly, second week), my guild took down KJ. Really, only M’uru (about 23 wipes I think) and Kil’Jaedan (about 38) took any real difficulty, and this was with a raid comp that really didn’t do us any favours. We didn’t expect to get Eredar Twins in the first raid night, but we did anyway.
It doesn’t really matter about wanting to go in undergeared, which was always a possibility. It was about the longevity of the available content. If you allowed T4 to be invalidated much faster by having T5 available virtually from the start, you just shortened the lifespan of TBCC by months. And while you could argue that’s a good thing, it really isn’t for the majority of the playerbase.
The gear drip from M+ has been pathetic. It was good at one point, but Blizz doesn’t like fun so now it’s just a slow drip. If you want to maximize your gains you gotta do them quests.
Yeah we would have blazed through content, but perhaps not as easily since we wouldn’t have been as geared. Lots of quitters happened in SSC/TK because unnerfed encounters were a block for them. So while they’re still progressing through SSC/TK, the guilds bored af with it should have been able to go to BT/Hyjal… it may even have allowed them to nerf SSC/TK sooner for the guilds struggling with unnerfed.
Also Sunwell would have taken a long time for plenty of guilds… just like it is now. Releasing Sunwell sooner would have allowed Sunwell to stay unnerfed longer while slow joes are still working on BT/Hyjal still. As it stands, they’re probably going to nerf Sunwell sooner rather than later so they don’t lose too many players.
It’s a conflict of what’s good for Blizzard vs what’s good for the players. We blaze through things and get bored, and Blizzard doesn’t want to spend the money/development time keeping up with players. Which is why they put a lot of bullcrap in retail to keep people busy… some people put up with it and some quit, and go back to pservers /classic where content consists of the 3 main activities: dungeons, raids, and pvp.