Some people have been rude to him for being a Christian. Ayrenn made several posts stating that God isn’t real in reply to him and they got many likes, which was encouraged by the story forum discord. People can refute his posts without going that far, as you’ve shown. Not that I’m defending his posts. I don’t think he’s shown himself to be a good Christian.
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I’m surprised you acknowledged people treating me this way (though they went beyond simply saying God isn’t real, and made all sorts of personal attacks on me just short of using slurs like “Bible-thumper” or calling for harm against me).
But don’t play innocent; I think you’re downplaying it, especially since you yourself took a potshot at me (asking if I was on Christian Mingle to make a “you need to get laid” jab, remember when you said, quote “You probably should, you might find dating a nice Christian man/woman more enjoyable than proselytizing on the World Of Warcraft forums.”).
While I admit I have not done a good job at being a Christian on these forums, what makes you say that of me?
Also, I must point out that Renautus is another of the people (alongside people including Kazthan - though we became polite at the end, and Pebrock) being rude to me for my faith (for example; Renautus criticized my faith as being “unscientific” though they themselves follow a religion that believes in reincarnation - quite the hypocritical criticism). Did you know Renautus was one of those people?
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Just to be clear, you were arguing creationism as if it were fact. Creationism isn’t globally accepted as fact, it isn’t even a globally accepted fact amongst Christians.
Pointing out that Creationism isn’t a certain fact and that some Christians acknowledge the Darwin Evolutionary Model as fact without it damaging faith, is not hating on you.
I do believe in intelligent design and reincarnation yes, but my faith doesn’t pretend science and religion are mutually exclusive. But yet another jab from you on how I’m not Christian enough because I’m apparently a hypocrite for believing in something different. You openly criticized me for leaving the church even despite the fact that I gave you very personal and valid reasons why I left Catholicism. Though I still carry Christian values and it’s still a very large part of my faith outside of the church. My faith is now rooted in anthroposophy.
You have been dismissive and condescending about other people’s faith. You get hostile and dismissive anytime anyone tries to engage with you over the topic of faith and that’s all you post about. You have called anyone who doesn’t believe in your very narrow puritanical belief “Contrarian Edgelords.” You should maybe analyze your own behavior before you go pointing fingers at others. You give the term edgelord to anyone who doesn’t like the same things as you, because you have some puritanical mindset that anything remotely Christian in this game is absolute good and everything else is dark and edgy and evil.
Everything you have experienced in this forum is a direct response to your personal behavior. If people are mean to you, it’s because you deserved it and were mean to them first. I have personally witnessed people genuinely engage with you only for you to try and push your close minded views on them or call them names.
Personally I’m just tired of your obsessions with Yrel as some perfect Christian woman archetype, and why you feel to compelled to defend her zealotry at every turn, that’s offensive and triggering to me, because the Light can’t possibly be dualistic it has to be perfectly narrow and good and and thus she must also be perfectly good, these oppressive beliefs are why women are leaving the Church. That’s why Lillian Voss is such an icon and the better archetype of a Catholic woman imho for leaving the cult of the Scarlet Crusade and following what is right and good on her own terms. The comment you necro’d this thread for was crass I’ll give it that, but i can dismiss it as crass and move on. I’m not a huge fan of the person who made that comment either.
But you do you boo.
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Your comment is full of lies about me @Renautus; you just further proved my point from the previous comment. I never said Creationism was globally accepted fact (and there are other religions that teach that their god/s created everything), you’re trying to put words in my mouth. And also being deliberately obtuse; I was referring to your dismissal of Noah’s Flood in our previous discussion - which you said was “unscientific”.
Funny that you accuse me of being “dismissive and condescending of other people’s faith” while misrepresenting me and mine. You repeatedly accuse me of being “puritanical” because I criticized the story direction of WoW where the Light was concerned, in particular the villain batting of Yrel (who, like Sylvanas, is being villain-batted for lashing out against her former victimizer, or should Sylvanas forgive Arthas like Yrel supposedly forgave AU Grom?)… all because you’re offended that I disapprove of the edgy content you are an avowed fan of.
The fact that I play a Death Knight - as shown on my avatar - just makes this accusation of yours even more hollow. I’ve talked about a lot more than the Light. Check out my threads on aspects of the Shadowlands; the Arbiter, Durotan’s soul, even quite a bit about the Nathrezim…
I only applied the term “edgelord” to people who unquestioningly or rabidly brought into this contrarian narrative in the story and those among the writers who are pushing it. I have witnessed people who tried to engage with me fairly that I could’ve treated better… and others who pushed just as hard as me but for the opposite side of the same issue.
I think Yrel was a nuanced character who was done dirty, and you only identify with Lilian because you see yourself in her (though Lilian is a pretty good character in and of herself). On that note, you reminded me of something that further proves my point; we already had a Light fanatic story arc with the the Scarlet Crusade, we don’t need another one.
That comment I replied to was crass and I could’ve dismissed it and moved on.
I don’t know about that.
The Scarlet Crusade had little impact on the over arching cosmological scene. They are mostly, if not entirely, an Azerothian Faction - with Dreadlords.
Yrel would bring an aggressive and possibly sinister or at least oppressive aspect of the Light on a multidimensional cosmological scale.
I do not think the story of the Light has been told. It seems to have only just begun.
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See but you can’t have a reasonable disscussion like that with Thadeus because he equates the Light to Christianity, they cannot be seperate from eachother and any criticism of the Light is criticism of his faith.
Therein lies the problem. If Thadeus can see The Light as something not connected to his personal faith, and something open to criticism, than we can talk about that.
Thadeus will just have to put on his big boy pants.
But, as you said, the Dreadlords were involved with the Scarlet Crusade. And as of the latest lore they are a multi-dimensional and cosmological scale threat.
The question is, why do you think an aggressive, sinister or at least oppressive aspect of the Light on a wide scale is needed?
It’s telling that you’ve stooped once again to personal attacks rather than refute my criticisms and just can’t stop lying about me @Renautus (though you’ve moved from libel to lies of omission).
You strawman me as doing this based on associating the Light with my real-life faith even though I’ve given several lore-based reason why villain-batting Yrel is a bad idea (she’s retaliating against her former oppressors, the situation on AU Draenor’s deterioration is up in the air); were you offended that I compared Yrel to Sylvanas?
why on earth would i be offended you compared Yrel to Sylvanas? different people can have different trauma. Yrel is nothing like Sylvanas.
I didn’t play WoD so I have no idea of Yrel’s story other than what I experienced with the Mag’har recruitment scenario.
You should learn Yrel’s backstory. Because you’ve just shown that you jumped to conclusions about her when you don’t know the full story (eg; Yrel is a former Iron Horde slave whose people were oppressed by the Iron Horde and her sister Samaara was killed by AU Ner’zhul for one of AU Grom’s plans). She has her flaws but is a good character and was never a “perfect Christian woman archetype” (she’s not perfect, and Joan of Arc is used an archetype for inspiring women in military roles, not specifically Christian or even religious women).
I suspected that was part of the reason from your vitriolic responses to me. You could be lying about not being offended, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
P.S. Whatever happened to you blocking me? You could ignore me, if you want.
What is Belullar on about then
I was talking about how much of her story you know, not how much Belullar knows. Plus I never said it wouldn’t happen, I said it happening was bad writing.
I don’t know why you’re surprised by that, especially since I don’t like the person and group I mentioned. The examples you’re using on comments I’ve made about you were jokes. If I wasn’t joking I’d have been more serious. A good Christian would be kinder, or atleast regularly examine themselves to see if what they’re doing is wrong. I myself have made bad posts but am constantly trying to better myself.
Bellular is a big fan of having an expansion where the Naaru are the antagonists and Yrel is the villain. He brings up this concept at random in a lot of his videos. It’s kind of an obsession of his.
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It sounds like you’re downplaying your mockery as just a joke while simultaneously trying to frame my retaliation as out of line. Quite the double standard.
You’re right about the self-examination and kindness, though.
Belullar is even more fixated on the Light as a villain than I am, and that’s saying something, but while I oppose villain-batting Yrel and everything Light-related, he obsessively supports it. Also remember, I never said Light fanatic Yrel wouldn’t happen, I said it’s bad writing that shouldn’t happen.
So, have you played the Mag’har recruitment scenario?
The Lightbound become fanatical and there’s a Horde quest titled “The Tyranny of the Light”
Yrel does stay behind in Draenor but we find out that in the last 30 years she’s become quite fanatical and the Lightborne have started to lightforge the orcs against thier will, not unlike what Xe’ra tried to do to Illidan.
Exarch Orelis says: The naaru offer us peace and order!
Overlord Geya’rah says: You mean subjugation!
Exarch Orelis says: Give up your hate! The Light can heal the scars of war!
Overlord Geya’rah says: Our scars are not yours to take!
WoW is pretty much setting up that trying to force faith on anyone against their will is evil. It lacks free will or consent and that is bad. it’s this that I am against. I was against it with Xe’ra and Illidan and I am against it when it comes to Yrel. Forcing Lightforging on anyone is wrong. I will stand by that conviction.
Yrel can’t be compared to Sylvanas because no one has Yrel’s soul compelling her to do any of these things, she’s doing this because she believes it’s right and good. No one is forcing her hand.
Also, you keep saying that this story choice was recent, to make the story more “edgy” but the darker side of the Light has always existed in lore. The Aarakkoa for example harness the light in the form of a Sunstone and used it to purge thier enemies, they called it ‘The Maker’s Flame’ - Algalon describes the Titans also bathing entire worlds in The makers Flame, when it comes to re-origination. The Amathet were also using the Light, they were so fanatical they thought that all life of this planet needed to be purged.
I made this point in the Alleria thread today but I will make it again. The Light is good but it can be a weapon in the wrong hands.
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Blizzard was pandering to the crowd who liked Illidan opposing and killing Xe’ra with that dialogue… and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Some people think Yrel is being influenced by the Naaru (even considering the “Light Mother” mentioned as a nasty AU Xe’ra) and thus isn’t responsible for her actions. But there’s a lot you and them miss. Something doing lots of harm for the greater good under the influence of a cosmic being. Sounds like your view of Sylvanas to me. You’re against forcing faith on someone… but what if Sylvanas is the one doing the forcing? She’s trying to force the entire cosmos to fit her worldview.
Yes, I’ve seen the whole scenario. We only ever hear one side of the story in the Mag’har scenario. The closest we ever get to the Lightbound’s side, a sermon, is even positive toward the mag’har. From the mag’har side, our two main sources are AU Grom and Geya’rah, who aren’t the most reliable sources. AU Grom was an infamous Karma Houdini from WoD who never owned up to his crimes, and Geya’rah seems to be the polar opposite of Thrall; extremely aggressive and taking awhile to warm up even to the main universe Horde allies who risk their lives to help her. Durotan, one of the only mag’har we’re familiar enough with to definitely trust, is conveniently dead and we don’t know the full context of that event.
Also, this very questline establishes that, in most universes, Garrosh became heroic and the main universe got unlucky. So it stands out that AU Grom’s son (the closest thing to AU Garrosh) is notable for willingly joining the Lightbound. Finally, while the Xe’ra of our timeline was certainly zealous, her dark moments did not come from malice, but a literal inability to comprehend certain realities of the material plane. Even her most loyal and lightforged soldiers (like Turalyon and Lothraxion) were both willing and able to defy her if they felt she was going too far (like with her treatment of Alleria) and she listened to them and compromised (fanatics aren’t known for compromise).
And again, we already had this type of “Light fanaticism” story with the Scarlet Crusade.
The mockery was just joking, you’re exaggerating it to make it another example of someone disparaging you. I don’t see the double standard. It’s not difficult to say you have a victim complex when you do this.
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My first retaliation to you was also a joke (the one that provoked you to jokingly call me “Mr Steal Yo Girl” - which actually was pretty funny), but apparently it struck a nerve since you treat it as me being not a very good Christian because of it. You’re starting to sound like you’re trying to gaslight me.
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I said that you haven’t been a very good Christian because of the general attitude you’ve had on the story forum, not because your replies to me have struck a nerve. I wouldn’t be joking if I were offended. When I asked if you have a Christian Mingle account your first reply to me had you ask if it was an attempt to use it as ammo against you. Now you’re saying it sounds like I’m trying to gaslight you. You sound like you’re being paranoid.
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you are making it sound like I’m a sucker for enjoying this moment where Illidan had agency over his own destiny. I’m pretty sure the writers wanted everyone to be on Illidan’s side… maybe you are the contrian edgelord for simping for Xe’ra this hard, especially after she tried to lightforge someone against their will.
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Me an edgelord? Thank you, that comment made me laugh.
I was talking about unquestiongly and eagerly swallowing Blizzard’s ham-fisted retcons where the edgier characters are concerned.
Xe’ra had her issues and flaws, but she was a sweetheart compared to characters like Sargeras, N’Zoth, Zovaal… even ones like Lei Shen, Azshara and Sylvanas. If you have genuine compassion on me, drop the personal attacks.
How am I displaying Steven Hassan’s BITE method? I’m not trying to control anyone’s Behavior, the Information they receive or their Thoughts and Emotions. I’m trying to give them information about the full picture and challenging their views. I didn’t know challenging people’s views was authoritarian lol
In fact, that BITE the criticism applies to you more than me given how you dole out cherry-picked Information like it was candy (and how you and Evelysaa are ganging up on me like this); especially since you go back and edit your replies to add new info after I comment to pretend like you refuted me… now I think about it, maybe that’s why you accept all these ham-fisted retcons, you and these writers share a tendency to rewrite history.
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