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all we’re asking for is a reply at this point blizz, its frustrating enough that we can’t get on the servers, but to be told to come here only to get blatantly ignored? come on…


Humble suggestion: publicly tweet at @BlizzardCS about this issue. Keep it polite but firm. Airing this dirty laundry outside of these forums may be more likely to prompt action, or at least a response or acknowledgement.


WOW51900309 for almost a week now, love it! PLEASE!!! BLUES!!! SAY SOMETHING!!!


buddy, seriously, rather than shilling for blizzard, maybe put in some kind of message to any kind of staff to get it looked at?

the whole point of QA is to make sure something works. if you cant even get into it, it’s obviously not working, and needs to be looked at.

you’re not really placating anyone by arguing about this.

(Levíathan) #108

Friend, I’m explaining reality independently of sides. Secondly, I don’t have any more connections to the PTR teams than you. The fact that it’s here on the PTR forums many times over has already gotten the message to them. The lack of response and nothing being done are not mutually inclusive.

Not to make sure something works, but to investigate and hopefully resolve when something doesn’t. That first step is often the rate limiter. There will be times when causes are hard to elucidate or replicate leading to extended fixing times.

It’s not to placate, but to explain the reality of things. In situations where an issue isn’t immediately resolvable, placation sometimes isn’t even possible. So, at the very least the facts surrounding the issue are provided so that folks can understand.


You don’t have contact to the PTR team, CS has no contact to the PTR team, I guess the PTR team has their base on Mars or something, would explain why they STILL haven’t fixed the issue that has been going on since PTR launched. When the first bug we come across is a bug that doesn’t allow you to log on, that is subpar. Where was the quality control to make sure that wouldn’t happen? It isn’t like this is Alpha, this should be a playable Beta of the next patch. But it isn’t even playable, heck this mess isn’t even worthy of being called Alpha, this stuff should be back on the desk of whatever douche made it and used as a reason to fire said person for such a sloppy job. Cause this is not a rare problem, we have hundreds of people (who are posting on forums, no everyone posts on forums) who are unable to log into PTR. Hundreds from let us say a couple of thousand is still a high percentage that is not acceptable. We want this fixed, otherwise I, for one, will want my money refunded, since the only reason I keep logging on is to try to get onto PTR, seeing how the only reason why I bought BfA is for the Zandalari Trolls which were announced for launch and we are STILL waiting on. I ain’t playing for the story-telling anymore, that much is for sure.


Hey look Pal, The green text is deceiving at times.
There’s only an illusion that they can actually help in most situations.
They aren’t always more informed than someone with white text.
Sometimes they can come across as down right arrogant and rude as well.

Most people have come to the realization (after discussing it for over a week) that players who have a fresh install on the PTR are not able to get in. Most likely an essential file is missing in the download because other players who have previously downloaded it are not having these issues.

“The PTR just came up, you’ll get in eventually.”
Not placating at all.

“That presents a problem where people apply their own personal goalposts.”
Not snarky at all.

Wondering if there is any urgency at all to fixing this issue considering how long it’s been dragging on.

Maybe when it’s live we can test it…

(Levíathan) #111

Correct. It is wholly separate from the services of the live game.

Only they know exactly why, but countless times CS has explained that bug fixing isn’t as simple as knowing there’s a bug.

Knowing about an issue doesn’t automatically come with a resolution that allows us to fix it, as much as we might want that to be true. Some bugs can be extremely complicated, especially if we’re unable to discover what is causing it and/or reproduce what it happening.

PTR is for unfinished, not necessarily functional code. Obviously there’s 1000’s of people that can log in just fine, meaning that there are variables in the new code that need to be examined when it comes to the system trying to run it. That part of testing, that is the purpose of the PTR.

Again, players are able to get in, as was likely the case when testing it internally. But once moving to large scale where there’s virtually an unlimited amount of unforeseeable variables, unforeseen issues appeared… which is the point of testing.

How would you propose testing something on a large scale before testing it on a large scale?

See above about the purpose of large scale testing.

And if Bliz wants the client to work for everyone when it’s pushed live, which you full on know they do, then they want it fixed as well.


Kind of pathetic, that I, who only has a apprenticeship in programming know that before you send out ANY type of product you test it at least a couple of hundred times and every variable. Try to justify it as you want. This entire fiasco should not have happened in the first place. And it wouldn’t have if the programmers in Blizz had any idea what they were doing. And yeah, the server will probably work… when 8.1.5 goes live maybe, until then we are all stuck, twiddling our thumbs with people like you who try to make excuses. Well tell you what, I have had enough excuses. ‘B-but it is soo hard!’ is not a excuse. This should have been fixed AT THE LATEST this tuesday with the restarts, I had expected at least that much proffesionalism, but hey, as long as the streamers get to play, the little guys don’t matter, right?

(Levíathan) #113

I’m always careful to make sure that I’m simply rehashing what Bliz has told me/what Bliz has told others in the past. It’s something that comes with the Support MVP position (as opposed to Game MVP). True, we aren’t told everything, but we are told/see a lot that we then pass on.

Attitude often begets attitude. And when I’m encroached upon, I will fight back. It’s luxury that we have due to not being employees of the company. We’re simply community members like everyone else who are recognized as knowledgeable in certain areas.

I explained above that it’s not about placation, and it’s often not even possible in many circumstances.

That’s on you. Plainly stating that it’s Bliz’s PTR, not the players, has no emotion of any kind in it. Yes, it’s not what people want to hear, but that doesn’t unequivocally mean it’s snarky.

We will never know. But again,

Knowing about an issue doesn’t automatically come with a resolution that allows us to fix it, as much as we might want that to be true. Some bugs can be extremely complicated, especially if we’re unable to discover what is causing it and/or reproduce what it happening.

(Levíathan) #114

What do you think the PTR is?

You, even as a career programmer, will never know all the variables that could clog code up. Hence, testing, in this case, large scale in attempt to expose the code to as many variables as possible, searching for as much breakage as possible.

But hey, throw in as much hyperbole as needed to support your position. The little guys and the streamers and everyone else had the same statistical chance of being able to log in.


PTR is supposed to be a playable beta, what word do you think I will highlight next? Here let me tell you: PLAYABLE! But hey, keep assuming I am setting up imaginary goalposts, the goalposts that BLIZZ should be setting, cause guess what: It isn’t Blizz’s PTR, this game is made for players, for us. And quite honestly, for all the cash-grabs they have wanted from us for over the past few years, I think we are entitled to a quality product that doesn’t fail at the first hurdle of actually being playable.

Is it a hyperbole? Weirdly it is only people like me or Blazen here with no real voice in the community. But hey Taliesin’s PTR works, so does nearly every gaming channel that reviews. How do you think I know that these servers are up, because we get to see big-name Youtubers play on PTR while the rest of us drew the short-stick and get to wait until you guys built some sort of satelite to communicate with the PTR team that you apparently shot into space, making them unreachable to anyone.

(Levíathan) #116

Again, it’s not what you think it should be.

Made for the players. It’s not ours; we don’t own it. It is theirs and they will administrate it as the see fit, as they have the ownership rights to do.

I don’t know how else to spell out that your holding live expectations to a test environment.

Exaggerated meant to be literal. When the situation I described above is the literal circumstance.

Hyperbole. In fact, restated exactly as before, with no consideration of the rebuttal.

You and eveyone else is literally posting in the designated communication line. Your falling into the all too common mental trap of if Bliz doesn’t say anything or it appears that they are not doing anything, that they aren’t hearing it.


PUBLIC TEST REALM! The moment something goes public, it should at least be playable so it can be tested, otherwise you might as well just give me a piece of unfinished code and expect me to tell you what is wrong with it. To test something, you should be able to play it. Being stuck on a login screen for over ONE WEEK is not a way to test the game, no matter what you think.

We pay Blizz for them to make this game, this game is financed by OUR money, and thusly we are entitled to quick responses and a quality product.

No, not live expectations, live expectations would be that everything is implemented and that 99% of the bugs are removed. My only expectation of the test environment is that it is at least playable. Again, NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK.

Going to let that slide, because you apparently cannot understand, it goes over your head, that big names are not effected, thusly it is apparently not on Blizz’s priority list.

Yes, and fat load of good this place has done us, 1 week and they cannot fix ONE issue. I am amazed. Apparently the implementation that ‘regeneratin’ breaks when damage is done was more important then actually making the PTR playable for everyone. If it takes over one week for a group of programmers to find ONE mistake, chances are they aren’t good at their job.

(Levíathan) #118

Last time Masrinn.

Your goalposts do not matter, and your insisting on them has us only going in circles.

If the code on the PTR is such that it prevents even logging in, then that’s part of the test. That’s something that Bliz needs to know about the client: it’s failing in certian system environments. You and many others have indeed tested the PTR and because of it Bliz knows that something needs to be fixed before live.

Incorrect. If you wish to pursue that, I suggest creating a thread in the CS forums, where it has been refuted countless times by Bliz. The only thing your money permits is lease time to the game service, nothing more. That’s also specified in the Battlenet EULA.

You seem to know what’s going on over at HQ very well. And how simple of fix, or how long it should take, and what where in the process they are, and where the issue falls on a mind boggling priority list.

Feel free to apply so you can get in there and set everyone straight; get your goalposts set up. Because who wouldn’t want to do something better? They just need someone to point out how.


last time Leviathan

They do matter, as do the goalposts of every person with a functioning brain. If you create a product and there is a 50% chance it could kill someone, you would not send in that product and hope for the best. Same issue here.

No, that is correct, I am paying Blizz to play a game, and apparently, I can’t even do that. And since the first one is so good. You example is like claiming that I am paying a restaurant to sit down. No, I am paying them for the food. In this case: To sit is lease time, playing the game is the food. Perhaps you will understand these simple terms.

I know that 1 mistake like this, that doesn’t allow a high percentage of players to play should be pretty high up on the priority list. I know that when you have… how many programmers does Blizz have? Let us say 10? Though I think more, when you have that many people working for 8 hours a day to find one mistake and are incapable of finding it in 7 days time, yeah, you suck at your job.
It’s like handing me your car and I and 10 other mechanics start working on it and decided to change your upholstery or fix your air conditioning but the main problem still persists in those 7 days: THE FACT THAT THE DAMN THING WONT START.

But I get now that you are incapable of helping anyone and that your job is to make sure to protect Blzz’s inability to do the simplest things. I am done with you, seeing how the only thing you are doing is aggravating me further and are not solving any issues because you can’t, much like the rest of the CS staff who apparently are incapable of basic communication with the higher ups. Cause that would be what I would be doing in any other service industry situation if somebody screws up this royally: Get the manager. But you guys are incapable of this, which means no matter how much I rip and tear into you, it won’t fix anything. You are just a punching bag at this point and it is doing nothing for me. Have fun trying to defend the indefensible.

(Levíathan) #120

Because this point may have not been clear above, I’ll reply to it specifically to clarify.

Our money only permitts access to the live game service, nothing more.

If you believe otherwise, please inquire in the Customer Support forum for further clarification.


No, that point was not clear, thank you for elaborating, it is still stupid, but at least you cleared up a missconception I had.


I work in IS where we promote code between different environments. We have test, stage, production. Changes are initially tested in, well, test. Once we have no show-stopping defects, it goes to stage, where final tests are done, and then we move it to production.

In this case, the PTR is likely what would be my version of stage. Blizzard has a non-public test bed where they test out stuff internally. Then the PTR build for testing with public users, and then off to production (live servers). Our help desk doesn’t help users at all with the test environments. Now, to be fair, we don’t have several thousand people hitting the test environment so working with testers is done via email.

The idea of a PTR/Test is to catch and remediate defects. Some of those defects may be that x spell’s damage is over- or under-tuned. Or it could be that standing in a certain place while casting a certain spell while having a certain buff on you causes you to fall through the world. Or, when Blizzard reworked the file structure with (I think) 8.1, some file isn’t copied down to the PTR or has an incorrect setting causing users to not be able to log in.

Yes, in this case, the defect is prevelant enough that Blizzard should have posted at the least a, “huh, that is weird. We are looking into it.” But I think it’s safe to assume someone on the dev team knows about the issue.

Anyway, the sole purpose of the test server is to identify defects. Go us, we found a show-stopper for testing right out of the gate. The developer’s then prioritize remediating the defect. It is possible other issues with the 8.1.5 code are a higher priority right now. Or, it needs a new build and they are waiting for more fixes. We don’t know. It would be nice to know, but we don’t. Life goes on.