No more pvp scaling

Thank.you.blizzard.
no sarcasm… genuinely happy people with less gear take more damage now… as it should…

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Oh hayyy cutie :slight_smile:

hello, qtcakes.

gnOwO what’s this?

Lookin’ good gnomie homies.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=318528/pvp-scaling-is-no-more-in-shadowlands-pre-patch

Full article

Hopefully this is not some sort of bug, and hopefully it doesn’t turn back on once we hit level 60.

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Without separate PVP gear (ie WoD ilvl boost or a PvP stat), this will make SL even worse for PVE to PVP.

I am glad hidden scaling is gone, but PVP gear needs to be free from PVE again to make scaling removal actually translate to better gameplay.

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Nah - the vendors are a good gap close. Though PvP ilvl was a neat touch, it restricted PvPers from engaging in PvE content and that sucks.

Trinket design may be a problem if they don’t take the PvP set seriously enough, but all-in-all this is the ONE SIMPLE TRICK that could save Shadowlands.

No scaling. WYSIWYG. Best design.

Very glad scaling is gone. It felt subversive from the start and was riddled with bugs and unintended consequences.

They should stop wasting time on trying to re-invent PvP gearing every xpac and spend that time on class design. The original devs already figured this all out and WoD was the final culmination of their hard work. As they say, the enemy of good is perfect. Just re-implement it and be happy with a good PvP gearing system and stop messing with it imo.

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No, what it did was allow PvP players to PVP.

If you want to PVE you did and got rewarded better for PVE. If you did not want to, then you didn’t get rewarded as well for PVE. But if you didn’t want to PVE in the first place, it didn’t matter.

I don’t want to PVE for PVP gear anymore. I want the best way to gear for PVP to be PVP.

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?
Weird take.

Exact parity between PvP and PvE gear based on difficulty, time invested, and rate of acquisition will absolutely never work. High end PvP gear making mid level PvE accessible and vice versa is a much better balance that ensures commitment on either side is appropriately rewarded without compelling people to engage in content they don’t want to do.

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Is this what you mean by vice versa?

I find this precarious, if so.

Explicitly, I do not believe “high-to-mid” but “high-to-high”, with trinkets creating asymmetry for each context.

If you are 2400+, you are competing at a Mythic level. If you are hitting Mythic bosses, you are eligible to push a 2400 rating. (Disagreement is more likely to be specific to the number, and not the core principle.)

The biggest problem is this awkward jealous/selfish vision for the game: PvE players don’t believe PvPers belong “in their game”, and vice versa. As long as the content is isolated into silos, this frustration will never subside.

Equality now. That’s my take. Sorry it’s weird.

That’s not it. PvP players want to be rewarded for doing PVP more than players who do not do any PVP. Same goes for PVE I would imagine.

It does not make sense that the rewards for doing PVE are better for PVP than doing PVP. And by better I mean more powerful and faster to obtain.

Also this current gearing system does not amount to equality, because there is no way to equate PVP and PVE. All this does is favour PVE players in PVP.

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This should be a separate thread. We’ve stated our feelings on this red herring, and we agree more than we disagree. There’s more smokescreens being thrown now with false conflict.

The crux of any disagreement (which again is minimal) is whether PvP ilvl was the best implementation for gear.

I say no, you say yes. Ok.

I truly believe if they go down the road of PvP ilvl, the rose tinted glasses will come off.

To me, the core issue is:

And unless the community can recognize that parity is deserved and the best of both spaces should be able to compete, we will continue to repeat this cycle of false problems and kludge solutions. Because that’s how ActiBlizz manages their content cycle.

And I do not think parity can happen, as it is impossible to equate PVE and PVP in terms of difficulty and time. Especially since it is a moving target as each season moves along. PVE gets easier as everyone gears up, while PVP gets harder as everyone gears up.

I do not agree with your assessment of what the core issue is. I want PVE players in PVP. I just don’t want someone who has never done any PVP have an advantage over players that only PVP in PVP.

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I participate in all forms of content by choice. My enjoyment is significantly hindered when I am shoehorned into engaging with a form of content in a way or frequency in which I don’t enjoy. I raided, PvP’d, M+'d and played less in BfA where any singular goal required me to dedicate hours on a weekly basis rotating through a checklist of content I was already doing for other reasons on other characters.

I never got time to do what I wanted to do on any given character because I had to slog through menial, often trivial chores for critical power increases that would have (and did, since I CBA’d to min-max on top of that) put me at a significant disadvantage to ignore.

If I want a character primarily for PvP purposes, I should be able to progress solely through PvP at a meaningful curve that isn’t disadvantaged by passing on M+ or raiding. Likewise, PvE players are one required BG away from starting WWIII at this rate, and they shouldn’t feel compelled to PvP to stay competitive slaying dragons.

Attempting to find parity between PvP and PvE gear in such a way where they are equally competitive absolutely pushes players to engage in content they might not want to do at all, or to the extent required of them to make meaningful progress. You cannot balance difficulty AND rate of acquisition between them because they are fundamentally different systems with different metrics. Perhaps most importantly, you especially can’t do that if you don’t want to force competitive players to have to play on the other side of the fence.

Parity is deserved, but unattainable. There’s more to the equation than PvP Rating vs Boss Difficulty, and that’s where the issue lies. Also Graendoll’s “moving target” argument is extremely important to take into account.

I absolutely believe that the barrier of entry to either side should be lessened if you’re geared and successful on your end, but PvP gear should always be best in PvP and PvE gear should always be best in PvE until a system is imagined that both are equal but nobody needs to play on the other side to stay on curve.