No Justice for the Kaldorei (9.1 Spoilers)

They probably killed her off in the Night Elves’ desperate attempt to reclaim some of their lands, because they can never win anything and they need to all die according to blizz.

I would like to hope that this was due to negative feedback, first due to the kind of character that Delaryn was and second due to the concept of Night Elf Dark Rangers.

Regarding the character that Delaryn was - my impressions of her were formed from the questing - and that’s how she picked up the moniker of “Avatar of Failure” in my mind. I put my full thoughts here - in reply to a question about why, during a thread where I rated the War of the Thorns, I rated the Warbringers: Sylvanas part of it as lowly as I did:

http^s://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showpost.php?p=1621038&postcount=32

Essentially, she’s “War of the Thorns: The Character”. She’s portrayed better in the books of course, but she doesn’t exactly engender good feelings.

As for her raising: I don’t think we need to rehash the anger on both sides about Night Elf Dark Rangers. Blizzard’s insistence on trying to drive a concept that’s doing the equivalent of skinning someone alive and making them roll around in the Bonneville Salt Flats was never going to go well.

1 Like

Anger on both sides? I wasn’t angry about Night Elf Dark Rangers, they are cool. WoW is a comic book universe, them being cool is literally the only thing that matters. The story that created them was garbage, but cool things come out of terrible stories in comic books all the time. I hope they keep bringing them back many times in the future, as was implied by the fact that they showed up as a group, including Delaryn, to meet Calia so she could help them deal with their internal strife and hatred so they can live their best unlives. If they were just going to quietly ice them because of “negative feedback,” as you believe and not because BFA development was a trash fire so its probably got entire mountains of cut content, they wouldn’t have included that quest at all.

Your attitude reminds me of a bunch of Night Elf roleplayers I went to for advice on Wardens because I wanted to make a Forsaken character that aspired to apprentice to a Dark Warden and decided to spew toxicity at me because they were so personally offended by Forsaken Night Elves and how dare I like the idea rather than join them in pretending it didn’t exist? You want to hate the BFA story, fine, I’m right there with you, but don’t go around raining on other people’s parades when they find some small thing to enjoy about it just because you feel like its at your expense for some reason.

8 Likes

It IS at my expense. That’s the problem. I’m sorry that you haven’t read the room on this point, but however “cool” you think the concept is, it’s still fruit from an extremely poisonous tree. It was the product of Blizzard deciding to make this fanbase suffer again, and in some of the most visceral and toxic ways possible as people from your faction cheered them on.

I was a Warden RPer - taking that concept with Sira, having her die like an idiot only to take that unique aspect of the Night Elves and give it to the Forsaken was pretty insulting as far as I was concerned, and it really doesn’t surprise me that others who liked the concept gave you the reaction that you experienced. You’re not just rubbing salt in the wound, you’re asking them to rub it in there for you. Hell, they probably thought you were actively trolling them and looking for ways to make them feel worse. Of course they told you off, and I certainly don’t feel sorry for you that they did. They’re under no obligation to help you, and nor are they required to accept your character idea as one that they have to praise, promote, or help you with.

If you’re still having trouble understanding this, let me add this last point. BFA wasn’t bad because it was contrived or lazy. BFA was bad because it went out of its way to destroy what people liked about the game, especially when you’re talking to Night Elf fans. If you’re going to approach them without that understanding, and pretend that it’s okay to tell us that we just have to accept things now like it was any other event, you’re going to have a bad time.

7 Likes

Yeah, the Horde famously had nothing insulting, upsetting or bad happen to them during BFA that destroyed what people liked about the game. Also bravo for your open approval of toxic community members mistreating others over story events they don’t like while complaining about how toxic community members mistreated you during story events you didn’t like. That’s a really good look.

14 Likes

This red herring is getting tiring. But it’s also an indication of the kind of bad faith argument that I can expect from you. So we’re done - next time, don’t approach a community and ask them to rub salt in their own wounds. When you do that, you’re not the victim. You’re the perpetrator.

You got what you deserved.

6 Likes

Bad faith argument? Ok, you don’t want to talk to me, whatever. Enjoy encouraging toxic behavior in others I guess…

Let’s just say the Horde hurt itself, practiced masochism without pleasure. The immediate target of hatred is the authors who once again pushed the Horde into the story “My kill! Whoops … My good.”
The night elves were hurt by the Horde. Yes, the Horde puppet is controlled by the authors. But the closest target of hate is the Horde. The authors are somewhere out there, far away. Plus there is an unfulfilled desire for revenge since the Cataclysm. “If I kill everyone, then I won’t be hurt.” You need to kill Human and the entire Horde.

1 Like

I wouldn’t worry about it. A small portion of the NE fan base seem to think they have a monopoly on deciding who gets to enjoy what when it comes to NE lore.

(You would think that telling these people over and over they aren’t only ones who’s community has been mistreated by blizz would have sunk in by now) :wolf:

10 Likes

IMO it depends on how the argument is used. If it’s just to “shut down” a part of discussion, aka “everyone got it bad, so why would you be treated as a special case”, or similar stuff - that’s a rather damaging approach to the overall quality of the game.

If it’s used to for, say, something like “how fixing one problem could be a building block to work of fixing others” - that’s a different thing entirely.


gl hf

12 Likes

The former is precisely what this was.

And in this case it’s transparent. Jahira dragged a painful topic in front of the few remaining Night Elf RPers left in the game in a manner that to me looks like mean-spirited trolling and an act of rubbing their faces in the event, and decided that she was the victim for the response that she got.

When she got called out on that, she tried to quickly pivot to Horde issues - which I’ve seen thousands of times - with an argument that I somehow missed them despite the tons of digital ink that I’ve dumped on proposals for dealing with them. Classic red herring fallacy - and as I’ve established before, I have a practice of ending arguments with people who choose to argue this way.

1 Like

Dark Rangers had been a concept played with in the paper and dice RPG, as a description of Sylvannas herself, toyed again with during Legion. (And I mean toyed with, it’s just part of a mostly comedic Hunter Order Hall side quest,) and then finally realised in BFA.

For all that it wasn’t given to the Forsaken at all, not as an option for Horde players. (Which maybe all for the good as we’d see servers flooded with undead Night Elf Hunters.) All that was really given was a cosmetic mail hood and a toy that would allow a player to assume a male Night Elf Ranger appearance for a short time.

If you let what happened take away your RP aspect as a Warden, that’s totally on you, not Blizzard.

And again, this obsession with a persecution complex isn’t helping your argument. Blizzard wants subs. They know that a large part of their Alliance fan base mains Night Elves, the idea that they would purposely intend to alienate that fan base is ludicrous beyond all point of reason.

There are plenty of issues with BFA but to ascribe failures in competence and execution to outright malice is taking things way too far.

14 Likes

Shall we make a deal? We give you the dead night elves, you give us … do you have anything the night elves need?

And yet, Blizzard has proven to be spectacularly capable of alienating not just this fanbase, but many. The argument that you appear to be making here is that because Blizzard wants to attract players, that they’re good at it. Their MAUs since Legion will tell you otherwise.

What I can say is that having observed this company: Blizzard appears to use a salami-slicing method, where they look at two fanbases whose interests appear to conflict (but don’t really) and instead of asking how they can satisfy both, they burn one for the benefit of the other, likely thinking that they’re appeasing the majority when in reality they’re just driving off the minority. Night Elves are almost always on the former side of the equation.

Most of the people who I RPed with have left the game. Those who I still keep in touch with tell me the same thing - that they can’t really bring themselves to play their characters in retail because of what Blizzard has done, especially in BFA. I’ve seen similar sentiments on other forums from other Night Elf roleplayers, and I’m right there with them. A word of advice: don’t think you can isolate me, gaslight me, or make me think that I’m a voice alone in the darkness. I know better, and you’re making a mistake if you believe that I’m insecure enough for those tactics to work.

Now that we’re past that - when you’re alienating entire communities, the problem isn’t with the community, the problem is with the people who have made things intolerable for them.

2 Likes

Like Ashenvale? Not like the Night Elves will ever get that back lol. They lost Azshara in MoP, and now Ashenvale and Teldrassil in BfA.
Soon also Darkshore will be gone since there are no living Night Elves left to defend it anyway, and the dead Night Elves were obliterated in the maw.

We need something that the Horde originally owned, which is part of their fantasy. Can you tell me?
However, I’m not sure exactly what part of the fantasy the dead night elves are concerned with. Something about unity, right?

You’re having the wrong conversation.

If this was a bargaining exercise, or a negotiation, then we have already pre-paid for everything we typically ask for, plus interest. Those treating it like a negotiation are improperly trying to hit a reset button.

We’re also not talking with someone whose opinions I’ve noticed are well shared on the Horde side. To the contrary, when Night Elf dark rangers were released, this was another mark in the Horde shame tally, and further evidence that they were turning the Forsaken into the scourge. It’s notable for instance that Blizzard made a series of changes to try to establish that the Dark Rangers were raised out of their own free will as a response to feedback coming from Horde players, rather than being coerced into being raised. I’m not sure who really believed the sincerity of that move - especially now - but what I am sure of is that there was, yes, opposition to this on both sides.

1 Like

I feel that their willingness in being raised is shaky all over again, thanks to later content that came out. If I recall correctly, Sira in Shadow’s Rising states that she wasn’t risen of her own free will after all. And even if she was, knowing that the game introduced the concept of the Maw and it being broken and sending everyone unquestioningly into WoW Hell, I think it’s impossible to believe that anybody choosing anything other than eternal torture wouldn’t be under duress. Because that’s kind of their only way out of being soul tortured, after all.

I’d rather the characters just get written out, if I could.

8 Likes

Just give them closure in a way. Make them return to the Night Elves to never be heard of again. Imagine how awful it would be if they’d get screentime as Horde characters. This would just be a tribute to the bad writing and writers.

2 Likes

I wouldn’t even give them closure. No returning them to the night elves or having them stick with the horde. Just black hole them and don’t bring them up again.

5 Likes