I feel like noone talks about the fact that they are running the 1.12 data over top of the 7.3.5 engine.
You realize this completely disregards the "no changes" mindset, right?
Running the game on 7.3.5 means no classic nitty gritty graphics that existed back in '04-'06. That means no running backwards, never failing when mining or skinning, and many more graphical discrepencies from the original game. In other words, EVERYTHING IS BEING CHANGED. The way the game interacts with itself graphically is based on 7.3.5 mechanics, even though they "copied the data" from 1.12 to force match the two pieces together, the game itself is still running on the 7.3.5 engine.
So I understand the hardware being completely incompatible concept. But is this really it? Is there no other way to create this game without this "changing everything but saying 'no changes'" approach?
Sharding, loot trading, all of the extremities of change that people preach against have been officially announced. Are we tired out from the Diablo Immortal hype train? Do we need more coals to fuel the engine? Because they're literally changing every single thing. Just because they copy values from 1.12 onto 7.3.5 does not negate the brand new set of problems that come from significant changes to gameplay, how the game interacts with itself, and all the modern systems they're using today.
This isn't a post talking trash about Classic. I'm genuinely excited to play because the no changes movement didn't bother me from the get-go (you can see a post I made about changes I'd be cool with). I just want to clear up this confusion I have about how the game is being made. After watching the "Recreating Classic" panel at blizzcon, I was left wondering "how is this not changing every single thing"?
Sincerely,
a finance major trying to understand computer science
Watch the classic panel and you'll understand why they're doing that and why no one complains about it
If you want to understand why they are using the 7.3.5 client I highly recommend rewatching the blizzcon panel "Restoring History." You can find it for free on youtube.
They are going to great lengths to restore everything they possibly can to how it was back in the day. I'm in mobile so I can't quote easily but you mentioned not failing to pick up mining/herb nodes. I will bet all the gold in the world that you'll still be able to fail those things in classic.
They are going to great lengths to restore everything they possibly can to how it was back in the day. I'm in mobile so I can't quote easily but you mentioned not failing to pick up mining/herb nodes. I will bet all the gold in the world that you'll still be able to fail those things in classic.
demo is a DEMO i know its really hard for people to understand this but man try to
The only real change that we know of right now, that will directly impact how the game is played for years to come is loot trading. Unless you are one who really splits hairs and want to bring up that there is only one static patch, which to most this isn't seen as a change because we all knew that was going to happen anyway.
Like a poster above said, just watch the classic panel to get a more in depth explanation than a forum post ever could. But for right now, loot trading is the only change. Some are okay with it, some love it, some hate it. I understand all views but I would rather just see it go away.
Like a poster above said, just watch the classic panel to get a more in depth explanation than a forum post ever could. But for right now, loot trading is the only change. Some are okay with it, some love it, some hate it. I understand all views but I would rather just see it go away.
11/09/2018 07:12 AMPosted by ElbardoWatch the classic panel and you'll understand why they're doing that and why no one complains about it
I feel like they left us 2 choices at the panel:
1. work forward from 1.12 meaning tons of malicious bugs and hacks become reactivated
How do they not have a list of everything thats been hacked or done to them maliciously that they have caught, then work to patch those bugs before launching the game? If they have 1.12 backup saved in a backup of a backup's backup somewhere in a dusty cave, they have SOMETHING for the malicious hacks that they endured in that time frame.
2. work backward on the 7.3.5 engine because it makes everything easier and more compatible with all of the current systems
changes everything, 90% of the community will be pissed, yet, they are not.
I guess I just want to know, is it really that impossible to work forward?
Fans: You already changed everything!!!!!
Blizzard: Hold my beer.
Blizzard: Hold my beer.
I guess I just want to know, is it really that impossible to work forward?
Yes. Yes it is.
Take blizzards word for it. They are better at this than you. Or me. Or anyone in this forum.
edit: spelling
demo was indicative of retail gameplay for classic
sharding and loot trading announced, 2 systems that were in the demo..
demo is a demo, that i understand, but the underlying engine for the game is completely different, and that implication is official... I know its really hard for you to understand man but try to
11/09/2018 07:13 AMPosted by Mylìnademo is a DEMO i know its really hard for people to understand this but man try to
demo was indicative of retail gameplay for classic
sharding and loot trading announced, 2 systems that were in the demo..
demo is a demo, that i understand, but the underlying engine for the game is completely different, and that implication is official... I know its really hard for you to understand man but try to
11/09/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Lagspike
I guess I just want to know, is it really that impossible to work forward?
Yes. Yes it is.
Take blizzards word for it. They are better at this than you. Or me. Or anyone in this forum.
Haha thank you. Great answer. No sarcasm.
what's the endgame here?
make a big ol' forum stink about it and maybe they'll cast aside months of work and start back over with the classic engine? please.
my reasons for playing classic are a little different in general, but most past players pine for the sense of community classic offered. most of the people returning will probably compromise a bit on trees, shade, and water if it is a pathway toward the stability and relative ethics an official server offers. until blizzard institutes cross-realm and QoF changes which compromise the entire ethos of classic, i don't particularly understand all the outcry since blizzcon.
make a big ol' forum stink about it and maybe they'll cast aside months of work and start back over with the classic engine? please.
my reasons for playing classic are a little different in general, but most past players pine for the sense of community classic offered. most of the people returning will probably compromise a bit on trees, shade, and water if it is a pathway toward the stability and relative ethics an official server offers. until blizzard institutes cross-realm and QoF changes which compromise the entire ethos of classic, i don't particularly understand all the outcry since blizzcon.
...changes everything, 90% of the community will be pissed, yet, they are not.
I guess I just want to know, is it really that impossible to work forward?
Not true. Just not. 90% is a silly number to even blindly throw out there.
And is it impossible? No. Is it dumb in the grand scheme of things? Yes. Please watch the panel again. They gave VERY good reasons for not working from the old client, not including the obvious old, no bnet, exploits that you referenced.
what's the endgame here?
my reasons for playing classic are a little different in general, but most past players pine for the sense of community classic offered. most of the people returning will probably compromise a bit on trees, shade, and water if it is a pathway toward the stability and relative ethics an official server offers. .
End game is to attain a better understanding of the system from the community as opposed to a PR announcement that players may have a little more insight to.
Your response helps, thanks.
11/09/2018 07:32 AMPosted by Spookyspudwhat's the endgame here?
my reasons for playing classic are a little different in general, but most past players pine for the sense of community classic offered. most of the people returning will probably compromise a bit on trees, shade, and water if it is a pathway toward the stability and relative ethics an official server offers. .
End game is to attain a better understanding of the system from the community as opposed to a PR announcement that players may have a little more insight to.
Your response helps, thanks.
Here is some player insight. Watch the PR announcement and they will literally explain everything you want to know.
11/09/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Vilebane
...changes everything, 90% of the community will be pissed, yet, they are not.
I guess I just want to know, is it really that impossible to work forward?
Not true. Just not. 90% is a silly number to even blindly throw out there.
sorry buddy... 50%? 35%? I don't know, based on the "no changes" volume of posts on this forums since the announcement of its existence, I'd say its over 50% realistically.
Again, youre right though thats not accurate.
There's a lot of little things that get baked into the 7.3.5 client that I wonder if they'll remove. For instance, if you're in combat and targeting an enemy and face away your character continues to tilt their head towards your target. I doubt it was like that in Vanilla.
Is it a big deal? Probably not. But it's not authentic. And it's something most people (and devs) wouldn't even notice. Still, do the devs want to fix little things like that? No idea.
Is it a big deal? Probably not. But it's not authentic. And it's something most people (and devs) wouldn't even notice. Still, do the devs want to fix little things like that? No idea.
11/09/2018 07:38 AMPosted by MogarThere's a lot of little things that get baked into the 7.3.5 client that I wonder if they'll remove. For instance, if you're in combat and targeting an enemy and face away your character continues to tilt their head towards your target. I doubt it was like that in Vanilla.
Is it a big deal? Probably not. But it's not authentic. And it's something most people (and devs) wouldn't even notice. Still, do the devs want to fix little things like that? No idea.
Great point man. There's still tons of uncertainty, clearly the demo was not the complete version of WoW classic. So I would feel confident in saying that anything in that respect that you consider to be 'not authentic' and is a visual difference like that, will be reverted to its classical form. As a matter of fact on that specifically, turning your head may not have even existed in the original art models in vanilla, so it may already have been fixed when they reverted the WoD character models.
Classic will never be vanilla, because even if the game was the exact same, we as a community have changed and gaming has evolved. I kinda wish they just embraced it and released it as a new take on a classic mmo but well, looking forward to what they will bring to the table, so far it has been fairly dissapointing as expected.
11/09/2018 07:47 AMPosted by ZenshigenClassic will never be vanilla, because even if the game was the exact same, we as a community have changed and gaming has evolved. I kinda wish they just embraced it and released it as a new take on a classic mmo but well, looking forward to what they will bring to the table, so far it has been fairly dissapointing as expected.
That's 90% of what this is, the old wow, but on today's systems. The other 10% is using a reference client to copy numbers and data to a 7.3.5 engine. (clearly those numbers are not based on any factual research, its my opinion)
EDIT: and with respect to embracing it...
This isn't a call to action or anything. I just felt like everything is being changed, and the reasoning is kind of technical so its not very straight forward "in your face" logic. Personally, I think that's the answer to my question after reading a lot of this. People who fully understand the technicality behind this project are way more understanding. Clearly, I don't fully understand this. And yes I watched the panel.
This was pointed out months ago. When we lost the first three purists to congestive heart failure.
Think it was a flying thread for the first one. The second went down over the first guild bank thread.
The third went down when it was explained that modern infrastructure, hardware, player knowledge, addons, and resources would make the experience not the same as 2004.
Been a lot of mini strokes since then and a lot of panic attacks.
2019 classic is not 2004 Vanilla. It was never going to be.
You don't need to be a developer to see that.
You're a numbers person. Way too many variables to deliver that exact experience. Impossible actually. We can hope for close though.
You already knew this.
Even if it was 1:1 starting with patch 1.0 it would still be different.
The players have changed. No matter what any of these grumpy old geezers here say.
Figures don't lie and liars figure. Go figure. Lol.
Think it was a flying thread for the first one. The second went down over the first guild bank thread.
The third went down when it was explained that modern infrastructure, hardware, player knowledge, addons, and resources would make the experience not the same as 2004.
Been a lot of mini strokes since then and a lot of panic attacks.
2019 classic is not 2004 Vanilla. It was never going to be.
You don't need to be a developer to see that.
You're a numbers person. Way too many variables to deliver that exact experience. Impossible actually. We can hope for close though.
You already knew this.
Even if it was 1:1 starting with patch 1.0 it would still be different.
The players have changed. No matter what any of these grumpy old geezers here say.
Figures don't lie and liars figure. Go figure. Lol.