Nightfall - Melee Hunter vs Ret Paladin

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
161
10/02/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Smeet
If they can, go with the ret (it will depend on the number of casters in the raid), if they can't, then go with the hunter.

Not only DPS goes into that kind equation. A Ret pally in T1 will also provide substantial healing, just by doing DPS. So weighing DPS alone is not enough. Several factors comes into play. Will the healing allow other healers an easier time for example (oom problems etc.) And if comes down to a choice between a pally or a hunter for last raid spot, 100% of the time the pally should win out, alone on the other things he brings, provided you don't need extra tranq or kiting in your setup, which then suggest there isn't a problem for last spot anyways.
162
10/02/2018 06:07 AMPosted by Zionfist
10/01/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Theloras
...

this is why...

5 Most Overpowered Items in Classic WoW
https://youtu.be/1VmKx1mFRrY?t=254

"However, the best class suited for equipping Nightfall was Hunters as their spell Wing Clip had no cool down and could be spammed as Rank 1 for as long as you want. You would never run out of mana and you could just spam it over and over again. Each cast of Wing Clip had a chance of applying the proc from Nightfall. How ironic that a ranged DPS class has a melee DPS spec using this weapon."


yeah, im aware of that it just seems too boring to actually do. i'll probably be rolling a horde hunter and looking for some easy raid drops early on but i dont know if i could bring myself to do that more than one night or so.

should be easier to find a shaman to do it


Just remember that Enhancement Shaman have the worst debuff uptime of any class/spec that can swing Nightfall - due to the fact that Windfury CANNOT trigger procs in Vanilla.

With only auto-attack and Stormstrike (20 sec cd), Enhancement ends up at ~25% uptime.
163
10/02/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Smeet
So assuming that the proc rates and all that are perfectly blizzlike, it appears that when choosing for a ret pally or a hunter uptime on nightfall duty it comes down to the question of:

Which is greater? The ret on nightfall duty and hunter as marks doing their best dps rotation, or a 2.25% increase in your raid's casters. (Assuming both players would otherwise be in the same raid together)

The uptime difference on average would work out to about a 2.25% difference in caster damage (15% greater uptime of a 15% damage buff)

If you are trying to pick between the two for the last raid slot, then it comes down to if the paladin themselves can out-DPS a mostly autoattacking hunter by more than 2.25% of their raid's caster dps.

If they can, go with the ret (it will depend on the number of casters in the raid), if they can't, then go with the hunter.

Generally that level of min-maxing isnt super important, and won't frequently be the difference between a wipe or kill, but it is an interesting math problem.


Honestly, I would recommend BOTH Melee Hunter + Retribution Paladin and then stack as many casters as you can in the raid. Better yet if you also have an OT Warrior with Nightfall as well and you can get ~75% total debuff uptime.

Do that setup and your casters will love you forever :)

But to answer your question directly though, it all depends on how many casters there are in the raid in order to weigh the cost/benefit for having the Hunter stay ranged or go melee as their own personal DPS goes down 1/3 to 1/2 for a few more seconds of debuff uptime compared to Ret.

Fury Warriors are in a similar cost/benefit situation because while they have the highest debuff uptime, their own personal DPS goes down the toilet by 1/3 to 1/2 by swinging Nightfall compared to dual wield 1handers.

Classes/specs and debuff uptime % (on average)
1. Fury Warrior 50% (their own personal DPS goes down by 1/3 to 1/2)
2. Melee Hunter 45% (their own personal DPS goes down by 1/3 to 1/2)
3. Retribution Paladin 40%
4. Prot Warrior 30% (due to Annihilator weaving as well)
5. Enhancement Shaman 25%
164
10/02/2018 07:02 AMPosted by Swani
10/02/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Smeet
If they can, go with the ret (it will depend on the number of casters in the raid), if they can't, then go with the hunter.

Not only DPS goes into that kind equation. A Ret pally in T1 will also provide substantial healing, just by doing DPS. So weighing DPS alone is not enough. Several factors comes into play. Will the healing allow other healers an easier time for example (oom problems etc.) And if comes down to a choice between a pally or a hunter for last raid spot, 100% of the time the pally should win out, alone on the other things he brings, provided you don't need extra tranq or kiting in your setup, which then suggest there isn't a problem for last spot anyways.


Provided Tranq shots are covered then yes, the Retribution Paladin should win out due to having another raid wide Blessing plus the simply amazing hybrid support healing that comes from 8/8 Tier 1 AoE group heals + Judgement of Light being +10% proc chance.

8/8 Tier 1 on fights like Thaddius and Loatheb make the encounters simply a cake walk for a raid to beat:

Wearing 8/8 Tier 1 on Thaddius
Efficient Heal(970.2k)
#1 Sarkha 176415(738/s) 18.2%
#2 Theoloras 112078(469/s) 11.6%
#3 Rotpotato 108104(452/s) 11.1%
#4 Morbelhazmal 88384(370/s) 9.1%
#5 Pocketholy 77673(325/s) 8.0%
#6 Nolamik 72680(304/s) 7.5%
#7 Nadey 65100(272/s) 6.7%
#8 Salemko 64354(269/s) 6.6%
#9 Rafles 60091(251/s) 6.2%
#10 Drunkpenguin 54221(227/s) 5.6%
#11 Overhealer 52318(219/s) 5.4%
Overheal(336.4k)
#1 Theoloras 70377 (294/s) 20.9%
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=94705&Fight=5
^^^without casting a single castable heal and still doing 923 DPS^^^

Efficient Heal(1296.6k)
#1 Sarkha 195108(687/s) 15.0%
#2 Rotpotato 162547(572/s) 12.5%
#3 Theoloras 138755(489/s) 10.7%
#4 Debye 130230(459/s) 10.0%
#5 Rafles 103239(364/s) 8.0%
#6 Nuerock 90713(319/s) 7.0%
#7 Salemko 90203(318/s) 7.0%
#8 Grethilda 80897(285/s) 6.2%
#9 Morbelhazmal 79355(279/s) 6.1%
#10 Drunkpenguin 75633(266/s) 5.8%
#11 Nadey 54394(192/s) 4.2%
Overheal(271.9k)
#1 Theoloras 75425 (266/s) 27.7%
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=96949&Fight=3
^^^again not a single castable heal but this time doing 954 DPS^^^
both of those fights while swinging Nightfall and boosting all caster DPS in the process
165
10/01/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Theloras
09/30/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
...

I was just showing that most of the time nightfall is useless. We can look at AQ40 if you want.

Prophet teleports and splits a lot.
Princess Yauj fears every 20 seconds.
Fankriss is all about adds.
Viscidus is about freezing and then killing several smaller blobs.
Huhuran sleeps melee.
Twin Emps shouldn't need an explanation.
C'thun, lots of adds, random players going to stomach to make him vulnerable...Not going to be very effective for most of this fight.

So, 2 fights at best that you can expect nightfall to possibly be useful. I'm a bit foggy on Ouro. I do remember Sartura was pretty easy to kill once you got the adds down.


First of all, lol @ your run down of AQ40 - especially "Fankriss is all about adds"

There are only 2 fights in AQ40 where Nightfall isn't required - Viscidus and Twin Emps.

I swung Nightfall 100% of the time for my raiding guild in MC, BWL, AQ40 and Naxx for all trash and boss fights.

"C'thun, lots of adds, random players going to stomach to make him vulnerable...Not going to be very effective for most of this fight."

C'Thun going vulnerable for 45 seconds during phase 2 says hello :P


The point of the post is that rarely is it possible to keep high uptime. Very few fights are tank and spank like Patchwerk, changing targets, CCs, avoiding mechanics, all of this stuff is going to greatly reduce your ability to keep the proc on the target.

Fankriss is an easy fight. The adds are the only dangerous part, so killing them is a priority. If you want to keep beating on the boss to pad your uptime while everyone else kills the adds so they don't wipe the raid, so be it. But you aren't contributing anything to the fight by doing that. For the 45sec Cthun is vulnerable your crappy specs might prove useful, for the rest of the fight you are contributing nothing and being carried.

This also doesn't change the fact that if you already have an OT using NF, the uptime contribution from bringing 2 more classes is minimal, and you would do better bringing 2 real dps.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

First of all, lol @ your run down of AQ40 - especially "Fankriss is all about adds"

There are only 2 fights in AQ40 where Nightfall isn't required - Viscidus and Twin Emps.

I swung Nightfall 100% of the time for my raiding guild in MC, BWL, AQ40 and Naxx for all trash and boss fights.

"C'thun, lots of adds, random players going to stomach to make him vulnerable...Not going to be very effective for most of this fight."

C'Thun going vulnerable for 45 seconds during phase 2 says hello :P


The point of the post is that rarely is it possible to keep high uptime. Very few fights are tank and spank like Patchwerk, changing targets, CCs, avoiding mechanics, all of this stuff is going to greatly reduce your ability to keep the proc on the target.

Fankriss is an easy fight. The adds are the only dangerous part, so killing them is a priority. If you want to keep beating on the boss to pad your uptime while everyone else kills the adds so they don't wipe the raid, so be it. But you aren't contributing anything to the fight by doing that. For the 45sec Cthun is vulnerable your crappy specs might prove useful, for the rest of the fight you are contributing nothing and being carried.

This also doesn't change the fact that if you already have an OT using NF, the uptime contribution from bringing 2 more classes is minimal, and you would do better bringing 2 real dps.


You literally have no idea what you are talking about dude...

1. The OT uses Annihilator + Nightfall and gets 25-30% Nightfall uptime as a result at best due to swapping weapons and being rage starved with 3.5 swing speed.

2. Paladins stacking spell damage literally top Fankriss fights - Consecration and Crystal Charge (43% scaling with sp) say hello - all while wailing on the actual boss with Nightfall.

3. If I wanted to pad my meters on Fankriss, I wouldn't even be on the boss with Nightfall - I would stack even more spell damage with 1h sp weapon and sp shield from UBRS to boost my Consecration + Crystal Charge damage even more.

4. on C'Thun everyone is being carried because in phase 1 you avoid chaining the eye beam so you can only have so many melee DPSing the Eye - the leftovers stun/kill the tentacles (aka me) while tossing out heals to my group

5. During Dark Glare, I judge Wisdom and Nightfall the boss as the entire raid moves 180 degrees and resets on the other side

6. During phase 2 vulnerable phase you get as much DPS on the boss as possible aka Nightfall says hello

Never mind the fact that Naxxramas bosses say hello where long Nightfall uptime is doable on every boss except for KT and Heigan due to Mana Detonation/Burn and Gothik due to me being on undead side and each mob being immune to all schools except Holy. 4HM is situational while I'm on target for each boss mob while waiting for Marks to fade.

Patchwerk - mega uptime
Grobbulus - mega uptime
Thaddius - mega uptime (+8/8 Tier 1 for AoE group heals)
Anub'Rekhan - decent uptime once adds are down
Grand Widow - mega uptime
Maexxna - mega uptime
Razuvious - mega uptime
Gothik - no need for Nightfall
4HM - varies
Noth - mega uptime
Heigan - limited due to mana burn (doable if you drain all your mana before combat)
Loatheb - mega uptime (+8/8 Tier 1 for AoE group heals)
Sapphiron - decent uptime
KT - not possible due to Mana detonation
167
I don't think you understand the meaning of mega uptime. But w/e, I wont argue with you. If you found a guild that thinks NF stacking is worth it good for you.

/bow out
168
10/02/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
I don't think you understand the meaning of mega uptime. But w/e, I wont argue with you. If you found a guild that thinks NF stacking is worth it good for you.

/bow out


Retribution has test and real world proven ~40% uptime which you combine with my own personal DPS + Nightfall uptime raid boost puts Ret in the top 5 DPS.

It's called Math - which we analyzed in the earlier thread post if I were swinging Nightfall for the top raiding guild on LH at the time:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761848140?page=3#post-54

Further extrapolation can be seen here in analyzing Coalition's Patchwerk kill from a month ago for real world DPS numbers from the top raiding guild on Anathema before they folded a few weeks ago IF I WERE IN THE RAID SWINGING NIGHTFALL FOR THEM:

1 Squizzie (275457) 1591.3/s 6.9%
2 Prefox (203365) 1174.8/s 5.1%
3 Tidbit (196186) 1133.4/s 4.9%
4 Fearless (186676) 1078.4/s 4.7%
5 Juddyy (184804) 1067.6/s 4.6%
6 Diggens (182565) 1054.7/s 4.6%
7 Maitozo (182185) 1052.5/s 4.6%
8 Slicy (181899) 1050.8/s 4.6%
9 Leeloo (181386) 1047.9/s 4.5%
10 Masttersnake (177575) 1025.8/s 4.4%
11 Gjinel (171554) 991.1/s 4.3%
12 Uppislol (170323) 984/s 4.3%
13 Ayeri (164881) 952.5/s 4.1%
14 Scoomalooma (162692) 939.9/s 4.1%
15 Tiburtius (154534) 892.7/s 3.9%
16 Jlow (151988) 878/s 3.8%
17 Cheery (145651) 841.4/s 3.6%
18 Yuuki (145569) 840.9/s 3.6%
19 Shiverino (143748) 830.4/s 3.6%
20 Etnies (131492) 759.6/s 3.3%
21 Voxil (124267) 717.9/s 3.1%
22 Fyrwind (101237) 584.8/s 2.5%
23 Funknasty (93736) 541.5/s 2.3%
24 Vipzi (62470) 360.9/s 1.6%
25 Cykeli (42204) 243.8/s 1.1%
26 Celyz (38492) 222.4/s 1.0%
27 Nyo (37734) 218/s

https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/?data=JQYWMMKQOI2FIK3EMRHEW5TWMI3XM6LFOBBDSMKBJ5MSWUTHLBQXU3LGLI4EY2CGHEZE2WJSJRREGM3QKA3FSTKOPJJWG42CJRTTIR3YMVGTQTBRMNCDARCUPI3WMVLIGZLGE43DGJUXEQLJJE3UWVSJOBJXISLNJVEGWQSIPJLTKUKENNVTCUJTOZEFEZTWMYZDC43SHFREC6JSIE4UKQ3UGJSEK4CQMZ3UE2KYN5EVC4DHLEZVU4CVGRDCW3KPF5TTQSJWJFYDAUDWMJAU6Z2PIJLHG23LNVQVC6LHMU2E6K3EFNYA

Total Caster DPS = 10796.5

Total Magic DPS = 10796.5 + 337 = 11133.5 with my magical dmg

Total Overall with Melee = 11133.5 + 177.3 = 11310.8 (ie: Sapper, TF proc...)

TOTAL COMBINED MAGIC DPS = 11310.8

Average Nightfall uptime of say 40% = 4524.32 x 15% debuff = 678.648

My total raid DPS contribution = 473.3 + 678.648 = 1151.948

Theoloras = 1151.95 DPS
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And if you already have an OT using it anyways along with Annihilator, as you have said they should be doing, you are not adding 40% uptime. That's not how math works. The warrior is already wielding NF, that uptime is set in stone. If you are capable of 40%, adding that to what the warrior is already doing would at best add an additional 15% uptime to the fight.

That places your dps contribution for the fight at 727.5 dps, #21.

And yet again, this is only for fights in which you stand stationary hitting the boss the entire time. Anytime you fight a boss that requires changing targets, avoiding mechanics, being CCd, etc, your dps goes much much lower.
170
10/02/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
And if you already have an OT using it anyways along with Annihilator, as you have said they should be doing, you are not adding 40% uptime. That's not how math works. The warrior is already wielding NF, that uptime is set in stone. If you are capable of 40%, adding that to what the warrior is already doing would at best add an additional 15% uptime to the fight.

That places your dps contribution for the fight at 727.5 dps, #21.

And yet again, this is only for fights in which you stand stationary hitting the boss the entire time. Anytime you fight a boss that requires changing targets, avoiding mechanics, being CCd, etc, your dps goes much much lower.


OT Prot Warrior in BiS forever gear with Nightfall maxes out at 480 DPS, has ~30% debuff uptime and is rage starved due to 3.5 swing speed.

You are conflating two very different tests:

1. My own personal debuff uptime solo swinging Nightfall in a raid
2. Multiple people swinging Nightfall

My own personal debuff uptime via real world raid boss testing and those done by Keftenk on target dummies give Retribution ~40% debuff uptime with SoR/JoR.

A Melee Hunter has ~45% debuff uptime based on Keftenk's testing.

A Melee Hunter + Me reached ~60% total debuff uptime on multiple Naxx bosses in real world live server testing.

It is my estimate that a Melee Hunter + Retribution Paladin + OT Prot Warrior could hit ~75% total debuff uptime but have yet to test that theory.

TLDR - there is going to be some debuff uptime overlap with more than one person swinging Nightfall but my own personal uptime has been validated by my own testing on a live server plus that of others independently confirming it at being ~40% on average.
171
10/02/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
That places your dps contribution for the fight at 727.5 dps, #21.


Respectable IMO..

10/02/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
And yet again, this is only for fights in which you stand stationary hitting the boss the entire time. Anytime you fight a boss that requires changing targets, avoiding mechanics, being CCd, etc, your dps goes much much lower.


This is why Hunters as low as their "figures" claim are actually a better DPS than most because they have a higher % time on target giving them better overall raid damage contributions VS even the highest DPS casters / Rogues and Warriors.

Its one of the reasons why I dislike how people take a fight like patchwerk and then freak out because certain classes are pushing fantastic values; because those values are only realistic in a few select fights, and only Post patch 1.11 where before that it's just not possible.

Pre 1.11 WoW > All the rest.
172
Melee hunter is a joke
173
...
Wow you're the one quoting false hopes. Hunters are not that strong with dps. From a min maxing standpoint the ugly truth is hunters are only in raids because of tranq shot. Nightfall is an ability to boost their already bad dps. I would expect that a ret would provide more dps because they actually are a better dps class than hunter.


From a min Maxing standpoint whichi is the same thing this dude is doing a hunter would be a better option.

I am aware of how raiding works in vanilla and the raid structure. This whole thing is a joke. You can do what you want in vanilla and a bunch of crazy !@#$ "works". No one will take you seriously. If i need a melee dps for my current content ZG run im not taking a ret, enhance, ele, moonkin, feral cat, arms.

You can raid as whatver you want, as long as you get a spot. Getting the spot is part of the fight, convincing people to give you gear that is better given to someone who isn't playing a joke is the other part. No one is going to allow ret to have the same loot standards as something that is actually beneficial.

In vanilla loot council is usually used for real raiding guilds because giving certain people gear is how you kill certain bosses in good time. Retail players are going to be hit with a wall of realization in vanilla.


The thing is with the private servers being out for so long people have actually prove how bad hunter dps are; you are simply still stuck at the vanilla era mindset. Back in those days people didnt understand how to gear, and what to actually do so when they see hunter they just assume hunter will do good damage; and back then people didnt care for the amount of damage and just damage per seconds something that doesnt matter as much as the actual amount of damage output.
174
if you run a guild and this is what you want to do than do it. I dont know what you are comming here to tell us this other than to point out its a strat that is possible.
175
10/02/2018 04:54 PMPosted by FellĂ­na
if you run a guild and this is what you want to do than do it. I dont know what you are comming here to tell us this other than to point out its a strat that is possible.


Well, that is exactly what I am doing here - providing people with the theory, knowledge and first hand + third party evidence backing everything up as far as:

1. Total debuff uptime for each class/spec
2. Individual DPS vs Raid wide contribution DPS
3. Best balance between class/spec + personal/raid dps

People can choose to play this way or not - this is merely giving them the information to make an informed choice that they wouldn't otherwise have considered.
1 Like
176
10/02/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Theloras
10/02/2018 04:54 PMPosted by FellĂ­na
if you run a guild and this is what you want to do than do it. I dont know what you are comming here to tell us this other than to point out its a strat that is possible.


Well, that is exactly what I am doing here - providing people with the theory, knowledge and first hand + third party evidence backing everything up as far as:

1. Total debuff uptime for each class/spec
2. Individual DPS vs Raid wide contribution DPS
3. Best balance between class/spec + personal/raid dps

People can choose to play this way or not - this is merely giving them the information to make an informed choice that they wouldn't otherwise have considered.


Youre really talking to the few people that are going to make guilds that look at those things. I dont know how many people are going to go out there and take find a hunter to spam wing clip for an entire fight for every raid in order to make sure the rest of the raid is having a good time on the meters.

Even if it was the only way to clear content i wouldnt expect blizzard to keep that as a method because it just makes no logical sense to leave the game in a way where you have to pick a weapon and get a proc to kill bosses.

So i get it. There is a neat interaction that allows raids to do more dps based on proc up time. I personally would hate to be that hunter whos job it will be to stand there and spam rank 1 wingclip for 5-10 mins.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

Well, that is exactly what I am doing here - providing people with the theory, knowledge and first hand + third party evidence backing everything up as far as:

1. Total debuff uptime for each class/spec
2. Individual DPS vs Raid wide contribution DPS
3. Best balance between class/spec + personal/raid dps

People can choose to play this way or not - this is merely giving them the information to make an informed choice that they wouldn't otherwise have considered.


Youre really talking to the few people that are going to make guilds that look at those things. I dont know how many people are going to go out there and take find a hunter to spam wing clip for an entire fight for every raid in order to make sure the rest of the raid is having a good time on the meters.

Even if it was the only way to clear content i wouldnt expect blizzard to keep that as a method because it just makes no logical sense to leave the game in a way where you have to pick a weapon and get a proc to kill bosses.

So i get it. There is a neat interaction that allows raids to do more dps based on proc up time. I personally would hate to be that hunter whos job it will be to stand there and spam rank 1 wingclip for 5-10 mins.


Hence why our overall takeaway consensus is that a Retribution Paladin is the best overall class/spec to swing Nightfall, they have highest personal DPS to debuff uptime to raid wide contribution.

Fury Warrior will have higher debuff uptime (+10%) but the hit to their own personal DPS compared to dual wielding 1h weapons makes it a net DPS loss overall (870 DPS with BiS + Nightfall compared to 1600+ with BiS and d/w 1h).

Melee Hunter also has higher debuff uptime (+5%) but their own personal DPS goes down by 1/3 to 1/2 in the process compared to typical ranged DPS (200-300 DPS as melee w/ NF vs 500-700 ranged).

Prot Warrior has lower DPS and lower debuff uptime as it is an alternative to swing Nightfall + Annihilator - especially with the Retribution Paladin in order to get even higher combined debuff uptime.

On Horde side, obviously they don't have Paladins but have Shaman instead. While Enhancement Shaman can swing Nightfall, they are only able to trigger Nightfall procs with auto-attack and Stormstrike (20 sec cd) because Windfury specifically does NOT trigger procs in Vanilla which results in Enhancement ending up at ~25% debuff uptime overall.
178
You aren't understanding what I am saying. You have said that a tank will provide 35% uptime. You say you can provide 40% uptime. That does not mean combined you will attain 75% uptime. At best, you could expect 55% uptime, although it would likely be closer to 50%. I had found a calculator that was able to figure this type of thing when I argued with you over this a few years ago, I'm on my phone now though so I'm not going to try and find it right now.

Now here is the thing, the warrior will be in the raid with or without you. He gets credit for the 35% uptime because he is there regardless. While you are capable of providing 40% uptime, you are only adding an additional 15-20% uptime to the fight, so that is all you have a claim to.

As I've also stated before, this only applies to fights in which you stand in one spot and DPS until the boss is dead. For many encounters this uptime will fall, greatly for some.

Best case scenario you are competing with the bottom dps being carried. Most other fights you are in tank dps territory.
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10/02/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Skjaldbjorn
You aren't understanding what I am saying. You have said that a tank will provide 35% uptime. You say you can provide 40% uptime. That does not mean combined you will attain 75% uptime. At best, you could expect 55% uptime, although it would likely be closer to 50%. I had found a calculator that was able to figure this type of thing when I argued with you over this a few years ago, I'm on my phone now though so I'm not going to try and find it right now.

Now here is the thing, the warrior will be in the raid with or without you. He gets credit for the 35% uptime because he is there regardless. While you are capable of providing 40% uptime, you are only adding an additional 15-20% uptime to the fight, so that is all you have a claim to.

As I've also stated before, this only applies to fights in which you stand in one spot and DPS until the boss is dead. For many encounters this uptime will fall, greatly for some.

Best case scenario you are competing with the bottom dps being carried. Most other fights you are in tank dps territory.


Tell that to the RANGED Hunters I out DPS in the process...

I've done Nightfall duty on ALL fights in Naxx except for Heigan, Gothik and KT - uptime will vary yes, but so will everyone's DPS in the process due to mechanics etc so your point is moot.

I never said a Prot War + Me = 75% uptime

I said a Prot War + Melee Hunter + Me = 75% uptime

because Melee Hunter + Me = 60% uptime already

I'll copy/paste what I wrote in this post again:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761848140?page=9#post-171

A Melee Hunter has ~45% debuff uptime based on Keftenk's testing.

A Melee Hunter + Me reached ~60% total debuff uptime on multiple Naxx bosses in real world live server testing.

It is my estimate that a Melee Hunter + Retribution Paladin + OT Prot Warrior could hit ~75% total debuff uptime but have yet to test that theory.

TLDR - there is going to be some debuff uptime overlap with more than one person swinging Nightfall but my own personal uptime has been validated by my own testing on a live server plus that of others independently confirming it at being ~40% on average.
180
I was using your math. You are the one that said that a tank is already providing 30%. The tank is the alpha and omega. He was in the raid before you, he will be in the raid after you. The only raid DPS buff you can claim is what you provide beyond what he is already providing. I calculated your dps and dps contribution based on the damage meter you linked using only the uptime that you are adding to the raid beyond what the tank has already provided.