That’s the main thing that confuses me about this take. I thought it was made pretty clear that it wasn’t the Nightborne rejecting the Kaldorei, but the Kaldorei that rejected the Nightborne.
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Because that’s exactly what happened. Tyrande already made up her mind long before even meeting Thalsyraa in person
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Yup. Like I said, I just don’t get the whole idea that somehow the NB not going alliance is some slam on the night elves or something, when it’s not what they wanted at all.
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Okay, sure, but they never refused to ally with the Night Elves because they hate them. They refused to ally with the Night Elves because of their dogmatic views, not to mention the sheer hostility that Tyrande showed to their entire species.
It’s never been a question of “What have the Night Elves ever done for us?”
The concept is simple really. The Night Elves have treated the Nightborne poorly and dislike their way of life, while the Blood Elves have shown them nothing but respect and treated them as allies.
It really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see why they chose to side with the Horde.
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TBH Blizzard could have easily written Nightborne into the Alliance but at the end of the day, chose not to.
While the Nightborne might feel a little out of place in the Horde as a whole, The Sin’dorei are the literal descendants of the Highborne who didn’t manage to make it under the bubble of Suramar. They have WAY more in common with their Blood Elven cousins than they ever will with the Night Elves.
Why would they eschew a way of life that they preserved for 10,000 years for an icy reception when there is a Suramar equivalent welcoming them with open arms? Seems like a no-brainer to me.
One Night Elf druid who isn’t even a representative of Darnassus doesn’t do much when it comes to integrating an entire society into another one.
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I feel like a lot of posters forget this, the night elf that planted the tree and helped with the addiction is not even a true druid, but from an order that combined proto-druidic magic with arcane, and he’s been hiding since the sundering. The Darnassian kaldorei society banned arcane and he’s not even been a part of it. He shares as much with them as the nightborne, except that he has not had any physical changes.
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The point isn’t where you are when you realize your mistake of not joining a faction. Though at the point if is still an object lesson in why you might want to.
The Gilneans had a city of their own. The also had a big wall. The Nightborne, with their more strategically placed port have no more reason to feel secure than they did.
The Goblins show how random events (even if your supposedly have nothing) can put you in the sights of stronger powers.
And if that isn’t enough. You have the Tauren who needed to join a faction, not protect themselves from the other factions, but from a more minor power.
Historically, small nations have always had to worry if they are big enough to go on alone.
And then there are economic issues. Puerto Rico has an issue of whether they want to pursue statehood or independence. One of the arguments for statehood is simply that they will be poorer as a small economy on their own.
They wanted a new race for game reasons (though I don’t agree with you characterization). But I would say they also came up with a quite reasonable back story for it.
I don’t think this is a fair characterization of what happened in any way.
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Even after all that, they did want to ally with the Night Elves (which, to me, is that part that is hardest to believe). They offered to join the NEs and the Night Elves rejected them.
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This is why Blizzard doesn’t make Alliance leaders even barely mean, guys.
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No they fit on the Horde.
They have more need for the Horde than highmountain does.
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Did they? No one was planning on attacking them/cared at all about Suramar after.
It actually just shows how poor of a diplomat Thalyssra is. Had she actually bothered to go to Anduin directly. Or hell, maybe ally with the NEUTRAL Dalaran instead who was they true key to their victory, much more so then either faction, the nightborne would probably be in a better position overall.
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Thats very different from Citywok’s assertion that NB’s intensily hated the the Night Elves. Which I have, successfully argued was not the case.
I am not arguing NBs should have been Alliance neither. I am arguing they should have remained neutral.
Yeah Tyrande was mad at the Nightborne for abandonning the Night Elves during the war of the ancients.
They were cowards and selfish, they imprisoned themselves for ten thousand years because they thought the rest of the world outside was destroyed not knowing the Night Elves managed to defeat the demons.
The Nightborne were saved by a coalition of all the current elf races. Nothing indicates that the NBs would sign on an a war of extermination of Night Elves because Tyrande was “mean”.
As I said certain races like NB’s that certainly make no sense to pick a side.
Blizzard makes up contrived reasons to make it so because the faction parity demands it and my argument is factions are dumb. They should be eradicated and nothing good comes of them.
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I would not call her a poor diplomat, they thought they could join the night elves, found out they were not interested, and the blood elves welcomed them with open arms. The nightborne didn’t really care about the larger horde/alliance outside joining one of the two world powers to ensure their continued way of life, and then it’s not weird at all to discontinue the one whose representative is almost openly rude and doesn’t want anything to do with you. If anything this whole thing shows how poor a diplomat Tyrande is, but then again she showed no desire to have the nightborne in the Alliance in the first place, which is also understandable for her.
It is not just about the Alliance or Horde attacking, there are many other minor factions that can pose a threat if you’re alone, not to mention the many world disasters that happen regularly at the moment, joining one of the two large powers would be for the best if you actually wish for a seat and voice at the table.
This could have been an option, but then again Dalaran didn’t “court” them, and Dalaran is just another theatre of the two-faction politics, see the sunreavers and silver covenant, not to mention the history of flopping between Alliance to “neutral”.
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I don’t think they actually cared at all about the Alliance (or the Horde). They wanted to hook up with other Elves. Their first choice rejected them, and their second choice reached out to them.
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Actually, no, they didn’t reach out to the Night Elves.
This is the dialogue specifically:
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: Greetings, Lady Liadrin, . Welcome back to Suramar. I am pleased to receive you under more pleasant circumstances.
Lady Liadrin says: It is good to see your city free, First Arcanist.
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: For that, we owe you both a great debt. You proved instrumental to our cause.
Lady Liadrin says: The Horde was proud to fight by your side against the Burning Legion, my lady.
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: I must admit, when I first learned of the Horde, I was skeptical that we would share common ground.
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: I though our kin from Kalimdor would make obvious allies. But their arrogance and mistrust soon proved otherwise.
Then she actually conjures an image of Tyrande showing what she meant by their arrogance and mistrust:
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Arcanist Thalyssra. I remember where your order stood in the War of the Ancients. How do we know you won’t betray us and become the next Elisande… the next Azshara?
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: We do not intend to be slaves to the Nightwell. We seek to drive the Legion from Suramar and put an end to Elisande’s oppression.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: The kaldorei will fight to see the Legion defeated and the Nightwell destroyed. Beyond that… we shall see where Elune’s wisdom guides us.
Then she goes on to state that Elune’s wisdom guided her away from the bond they shared, because the Alliance made no attempts to court the Nightborne following the end of the war with the Burning Legion and its allies.
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Seems abit naive on her part. Especially considering the blood elves clearly made sure to mention how important the Horde is to them/that they should have realized joining them would mean joining in any wars they start.
But that would ignore that the Alliance did help her, and not just the night elves. She mentioned “heroes of Azeroth” which means other races, including others from the Alliance, who might have been more sympathetic, had helped her people.
Tyrande has never been diplomatic. And yes she clearly had no desire to have the nightborne. The others in the Alliance on the other hand might have been more sympathetic. Heck, the Alliance was just in Cata making sure to do their best to make sure Gadgetzan remained neutral.
Other races seemed to have managed. If Thalyssra was smart she would have played both sides.
While that is true, the same could be said of the blood elves. Heck, had Garrosh not intervened we would have Alliance blood elves again.
Sounds like a good time! They then all pile into a big goblin made Cadillac and head to the closest nightclub, the radio blasting ‘Barbie Girl’ as they careen through the dusty Durotar canyon roads at unsafe speeds.
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Still came, still brought night elves to die instead of shrugging it off to fight the Legion one of the million other places the Legion was that us heroes weren’t, or leaving the Nightborn to sort it out.
Yeah, she was a lot more pragmatic and less kid gloves than sparklesupportivebff Liandrin, but like… she came and the night elves didn’t have to. I mean, the tauren didn’t, the humans didn’t, the draenei didn’t… not even the demon hunters came besides the player character and they’re ALL elves. (OK, there was a smidgeon of war table stuff). But Tyrande put her people on the line for Nightborn and she 110% didn’t have to.
I like the nightborn on Horde. I think they add some variety and, all jokey trash talking aside, they fit better there. It’s more interesting and adds some variety.
It’s a little tragic that the blood elves seem to have stolen their friendship bracelet back from the foresaken to give it to the new elves, though.
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They helped defend Quel’Thalas during the Troll Wars.
Simple the Nightbourne and the Blood elves owe the cure of the magical addiction to the races of the Alliance. They also owe their liberation from the Legion to them as well.
While I respect their right to remain neutral after these events, the fact they have sided with a faction that has committed wholesale genocide of these races makes them massive selfish hypocritical douches.