Again, fair point. I don’t think the society was flawless but it just worked well for them. Maybe they should have had closer ties to the Tauren because they really shouldn’t be on opposing sides. I think they now also realize that the total rejection of arcane may have been a bit hasty, but like I said it worked for them.
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Thankfully Areisia answered most of this, but I do have a few answers left, too:
I got lucky and happened to notice them when I was there for the Love is in the Air holiday:
Rarer examples there for sure, but one such is Huntress Davinia in Stonetalon:
Have there been posters saying WoW Humans are an idyllic race? Blizzard obviously champions them, but I don’t think it’s really a well defended stance around here. Are there really non-role playing Human Paladin posters saying everyone should convert to the Light? I’ve somehow managed to avoid reading their posts if there are.
When the Night Elves attack the Humans the Humans are working with the Orcs:
- Shandris Feathermoon: Pardon, Priestess, but you've been staring out across Ashenvale for hours.
Tyrande Whisperwind: I sense something dark stirring within the forests, Shandris. It feels as if it's heading this way.
Shandris Feathermoon: The greenskins who killed Cenarius?
Tyrande Whisperwind: Perhaps. Perhaps something more.
Tyrande summons an Owl Scout to check on a nearby orc and human base.
Duke Lionheart: Put your backs into it! Jaina and the orc warchief expect this base to be built swiftly!
Footman: Bah! We shouldn't even be here! Or siding with the orcs.
Grunt: We're here to hunt the remaining demons, human. You're lucky our goals are the same.
Duke Lionheart: All right, you men! Mind your business! Back to work!
Tyrande Whisperwind: So, these orcs and humans presume to run rampant through our lands? They will regret ever stepping foot into Ashenvale. We will establish a base and deal with these outlanders as they deserve.
Night Elves have flaws, and have done things that were wrong to do. They can be impatient and quick to jump to conclusions and act on those impulses without questioning themselves (Fandral, Tyrande). They’re ridiculously prone to corruption and becoming traitors (Highborne, Satyr, Naga, original Worgen, Druids of the Flame, Undead Night Elves, Zamael Lunthistle, Maiev). They’re can be prideful to their detriment even after being defeated (Illidan, Sarannha Skyglaive).
I’m just here to share the lore that Night Elves are not inherently xenophobic, not that they’re perfect.
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Definitely ones who say they are the best race all around as far as their civilization and ability.
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tbh I just rarely see this and when it happens they get mocked usually, least on this board
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Moreover it’s perhaps worth noting that by all accounts thus far, the only night elves who seemed to have any significant problem with the prohibition were the entitled leftovers of the former ruling class, who frankly kind of outed their ultimate intentions when the new kingdom they founded in Silvermoon ended up being another monarchic magocracy where the top magic-using families once again ruled over everyone else.
Most of the night elves benefited from arcane magic in the old empire, but they weren’t all actually practitioners, so giving it up wasn’t necessarily as painful a thing for the commoners in particular. Plus there didn’t seem to really be any resistance from the non-Highborne mage castes either, who in the wake of the Sundering seemed content to leave their old callings behind and embrace the new ways.
Which arguably made sense. A fairly pertinent factor in the night elves’ willingness to ban arcane magic lies in it being associated with the Highborne, who had used it to become the rulers over all the night elves, including the old noble families. So to the night elf commoners and surviving nobles, prohibiting arcane magic was probably more than just removing the risk of another global calamity like the WotA; it was also a means to prevent the next Highborne equivalent from using it to dominate their people again. Most of the night elves already really disliked their Highborne rulers even before the demons invaded, and so wouldn’t have been in a hurry after the Sundering to enable another powerful caste of aristocratic magi using arcane magic to rise to the top of their society and start relegating the rest of them to lower status.
Which, to a lot of them, was probably what it looked like Dath’remar was trying to do with his rebellious magic use. If it had been anyone else it might not have seemed as threatening, but to many night elves the fact that Highborne were trying to take back their magical power would have come across an awful lot like an attempt to reinstate the old order.
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Robespierre Malfurion was right.
I still can’t believe I missed that. That implys that their was some communication between thunder two races and probably even Alleria and Tyrande but have we seen that? No. Not even between Alleria and Shandris.
I only quoted the first portion but I agree with everything you said.
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When we talk about how xenophobis used to be an issue the night elves dealt with we aren’t talking about how they developed past it, were talking about how blizzard basically retconned it out of existence. Like how Humanity used to be elitist viewing their enemies as less then dirt and having their nobility treat the lower class to poorly they revolted, and the dwarves being imperialistic. Were talking about how blizzard removed the flaws from alliance races that actually allowed them to be morally grey and not this black and white insanity we have today.
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You don’t really see that many posters taking that side here - there’s some every now and then, but it’s not super common. That being said, there is a lot of discussion on the issue, mostly concerned less with how posters on these forums sometimes think that WoW humans are the perfect race, and more to do with how Blizzard seems to think that.
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Being mutated Trolls would account for that. Trolls are very xenophobic. Although it does very by tribe. The Darkspears were probably the least.
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Not the first Druid. As Cenarius said, the first mortal to study the paths of the Druid and not turn into something like an Ancient…such as the Druid Ancient you can recruit on the Darkshore Warfront.
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The problem when everyone that’s founding a kingdom was a ex-noble is that someone still has to take out the garbage.
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In my experience the first ones to screech xenophobia are usually the most xenophobic.
Cenarius has now said in-game that Malfurion would be the first Druid, not just the first “mortal” Druid:
I officially give up. If Blizzard is going to revise history on a weekly basis, what’s the point?
Still I would interpret that cinematic as the first Druid of that particular class of students… the head of the classroom. What Tyrande is doing there I have absolutely no idea since she didn’t study the forest path at all, unless this is to give foundationf or her bow wielding Huntress abilities.
Trolls had already learned the Druidic arts before any other Azerothian race and they did it without Cenarius help.
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We don’t have much lore on them, do we? They could just as easily be Ancients that took up Druidism during their lives, rather than lorekeeping or war.
My understanding is that she was along for the ride when Malfurion wanted to find Cenarius. She also had her own questions for him as it was depicted in the temple in Suramar that he was Elune’s child.
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Malfurion, Illidan, and Tyrande actually all met Cenarius together, which was originally added by the Warcraft Encyclopedia that used to be part of Blizzard’s website:
- Malfurion Stormrage came across several legends that referenced the mysterious Cenarius.... He shared these legends with his twin, Illidan Stormrage, and their mutual friend, Tyrande Whisperwind. The three night elves decided that it would be an exciting adventure to search for Cenarius, though in truth they no more believed in the demigod than the rest of their people did.
It wasn’t long before scattered plants and animals of Azeroth brought tidings of these three night elves to Cenarius. Surprised and intrigued, Cenarius located the night elves and looked into their hearts. He saw great promise in Malfurion, a promise that made up Cenarius’ mind.
The laughing trio was shocked into silence when Cenarius stepped out of a shadowed thicket. He introduced himself and offered to teach them the druidic arts. They accepted eagerly. Malfurion proved a quick and talented student, but his brother was clumsy and quickly grew impatient. For her part, Tyrande was already a novice in the Sisterhood of Elune and so had dedicated herself to the goddess above all others.
This was perhaps early knowledge that did not know the full extent of what it was to be a Druid, at least by how Cenarius defined it. We saw this with the Darkspear, the Gilnean Harvest Witches, and possibly even Valewalker Farodin.
We do know that some Trolls did revere both Elune and several loa, though, yes:
- "The markings on this robe resemble both the sign of Elune and several venerated Loa spirits."
Though, I think this would parallel the way the Darkspear got their start in Druidism with the loa, but ultimately came to the Cenarion Circle to learn the full extent of Druidism.
I was thinking more of the Zandalar. Their druid forms are saurian based.
I consider the Zandalari “Druids” to be their own unique thing, much in the same way Sunwalkers are their own unique thing rather than just another group of “Paladins.” The Zandalari “Druids” are pretty much Dinomancers, which we’ve seen plenty of. The Lun’alai are perhaps closer to the early Trolls that revered both Elune and other Troll loa. Dinosaur loa in this case.
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