Next set of ARs speculation

Community General Discussion
87

Junker Gnomes are all but garaunteed at this point; and tbh … the more I see of their customization options, the more I’m OK with that prospect. They actually do have a lot more going for them aesthetically than many of the Allied races … and the general reason people are complaining about them is that they’re Gnomes (which is honestly rather … unfair).

As for the Horde … I have no friggen clue. The Gil’s still have some issue that need to be overcome before they’re in a position to really be an Allied Race (they don’t “really” seem to have a civilization as of Naz’jatar, just the beginnings of one at best). Their single face for females (with 2 hairs) and males (with only 1 hair) is also problematic (far more so than their use of cata rigs).

The Vulpera are the other option, and at least functionally they are closer to being a completed AR than the Gils (ATM). They have an enormous amount of customization options ready for an NPC race, and they do have a unique (developed and slowly growing) civilization/culture set to go. However, their relevance (and necessary growth) going forward is uncertain. They need a Role to play.

We’re REALLY unlikely to get another wave of Allied races until 8.2.5 at the earliest, so anything could change before then. But it is likely to be Junkers for the Alliance; Gils OR Vulpera for the Horde. Its gonna be a wave of short races either way lol!

88

It is still early in the PTR and Nazjatar is not due for release for a few months yet. Another thing worth mentioning is that it was brought up in another thread that when number of the Gilgoblin and Ankoan models were datamined, that the initials “PH” were listed in each of them. Now apparently PH typically means “placeholder” when found in the datamining. Someone also pointed out that female Ankoan voices were found although all the models are currently male right now. There is a very strong possibility that this could indicate that sometime closer to the release of Nazjatar the models will get updated or perhaps in line with the goblin model updates.

Now I do want to be clear about 2 things though.

  1. I haven’t yet confirmed myself that there are actually female Ankoan voices. Could turn out to be a false rumor.

  2. I haven’t confirmed myself if these UI elements and models actually have PH listed on them though I am looking into this. The source of this comment is here:

As for the Horde … I have no friggen clue. The Gil’s still have some issue that need to be overcome before they’re in a position to really be an Allied Race (they don’t “really” seem to have a civilization as of Naz’jatar, just the beginnings of one at best). Their single face for females (with 2 hairs) and males (with only 1 hair) is also problematic (far more so than their use of cata rigs).

It is important to remember that they do have a full set of goblin animations. I’ve confirmed this myself.

89

Because they’re literally just using the Cata Goblin rig animation set; one which is going to be outdated as soon as the the updated Goblins models come out. And … unfortunately that means the Gils will also require not just that upgrade as well (but the addition of a whole new set of textures to fit those new models if they get them). The New Goblin rigs especially appear to be focused on improving facial expressiveness (which neither Gobs or Gils are known for atm).

Essentially, the fact that they have all those animations is something that neither works for or against their transition into being ARs. Vulpera (due to their updated Goblin rigs) would at least require “less” work on that front.

90

By no means does that make it less likely to happen. One big thing to keep in mind that by the time next expansion rolls around, there will inevitably be even more races released so it is not putting a lot of work into models for Gilgoblins is necessarily off the table. It is possible that updated Gilgoblin models could show up closer to the release of Nazjatar. They very well could be placeholders at the time.

91

why make gilgoblins an allied race when regular goblins are one of the least played races?

92

Cough Cough world of elf craft cough All races. No matter how unpopular deserve an allied race. Variety is the spice of life.

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93

Please for the love of god no gilgoblins

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94

im pretty sure blizzard isnt going to make an allied race that branches off the least played race in the entire game. it would be a waste of resoureces. they dont have to be elves, but at least something people would play

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95

And what exactly you are you proposing? Goblins, gnomes pandas and all other niche races not get anymore content? There is already 6 types of elves and a class exclusive to elves.

96

Stares at MechaGnomes Blizzard could have easily decided to go with mechanized elves, but here we are.

97

I was thinking about this earlier and, in a way, it seems perfect to me. Nazjatar doesn’t seem like a place either side will occupy long-term. The gilblins are escaped slaves, so I doubt it’s a place they’re particularly attached to calling home (but I haven’t done the quests yet, so maybe they do?). Ankoan, on the other hand, apparently only recently arrived themselves.

Where will these peoples go after Rise of Azshara? It only makes sense they’d end up joining with the factions that help them out and make a new home elsewhere.

Vulpera and mechagnomes have their homes in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, and considering each of those continents went to a different faction, it’d make sense if those races ultimately join with them, too.

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98

Exactly what I was thinking. Nazjatar is not a safe place, but look what the Gilgoblins have made of it while down there. Not to mention they’ve legend engineering and other professions while isolated form mainstream society. They could have only learn this themselves. And this seems kind of like how goblins got their roots started.

99

I personally imagine that 8.3 is going to be a big event, and having us meet and befriend new races might distract from the world-ending threat we’ll be dealing with by then. So, I think the races we’ve met, and will be meeting in Rise of Azshara, look like strong candidates for the last pack of allied races!

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100

I do generally agree to some degree unfortunately. If you include both Alliance and Horde Pandarens players in the same group, Goblins are the least played Core Race on either faction atm. That is NOT to say that the Goblins don’t deserve and Allied Race however, but unless Blizz goes out of their way to make Gils at least as robust (potentially) as they seem to be making the MechaGnomes … some special considerations may have to be taken in regards to the Gobs AR.

Also, bluntly, Goblins as a race are rather shallow in their historical lore (they are a very new species), and personality-wize they are just about the only race I could see approaching an AR based solely on a Business interest (rather than racial history). I am in NO WAY stating whether I’d prefer Gils or Vulpera; but considering the Bilgewater are the ONLY Horde race never to swear an Oath to the Warchief (we exist in a Business Arrangement with the Horde) its possible.

Honestly, IMO, the ONLY thing sort of getting in the way of recruiting the Vulpera is that I cannot see Gallywix being the one to do it (and perhaps that is their biggest handicap as a potential Gob AR). While I would prefer Gazlowe be the recruiter for either the Vulpera OR the Gils (and certainly hope his increased presence is a sign that FINALLY he’ll replace Wix as the Horde Gob leader) … he is almost a requirement for the Vulpera to join the Gobs (not so much with the Gils).

101

You are forgetting about the fact that Hobart Grapplehammer would likely take a very special interest in these Gilgoblins. Even if he can’t claim them, it is known that he feels proud about their creation still to this day and it doesn’t mean he can’t interact with them and help them in ways.

As for goblins. I think the lore for goblins is pretty darn good with a few exceptions. The fact that goblins have been around for a short time has proven time and time against to be irrevelant. According to the chronics they have been freed from the Jungle trolls for about 133 years. And in all this time just look what they’ve done.

  1. They have developed widespread trade organizations across Azeroth.
  2. Invented the currency system that both factions use today.
  3. Basically started an industrial revolution and are responsible for numerous kinds of inventions that even the gnomes couldn’t rival in some instances. They developed one of the biggest transportation systems with their zeppelins. They’ve developed machines capable of serving as raid bosses. They were the first ones responsible for the discovery of Azerite. I could go on and on.
102

OK … stop. Please, you are TOO obsessive about this topic. It is beyond frustrating that you can take a post that is objectively looking at the situation (and stating nothing more than several of the weaknesses that the Gils ARE facing right now; and stating that yes … Vulpera ARE still an option as the Gob AR) … only for you to throw TONS of headcannon back at those arguments in a desperate attempt to state definitively that GilGoblins WILL be the Goblin AR.

You also far, FAR too heavily rely on Grapplehammers interest in his creations for those arguments; most notably a single, throwaway line that 99 percent of the Horde fanbase WILL miss if they are not actively looking for it (because you have to go speak to him on the ship right after you get Derek’s body ONLY to have a chance at that line; and I’ve noticed several people on here post that they looked for it and didn’t get it even then). That is NOT a good foundation to build and AR upon!

I get that you REALLY want GilGoblins as the Gob AR, and I’m not opposed to them as a potential AR … but you need to chill and at least be honest that YES Vulpera COULD be the Goblin’s AR race instead (and that GilBlins CURRENTLY do have several MAJOR issues that will need to be resolved to be a GOOD AR race (and not just a throwaway pallet swap). If you cannot even be THAT honest about this topic, then no one should be discussing it with you. Your Bias is just far too heavy.

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103

These are my guesses as well.

They’ll give us shaved pandaren. :panda_face:

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104

OK … stop. Please, you are TOO obsessive about this topic. It is beyond frustrating that you can take a post that is objectively looking at the situation (and stating nothing more than several of the weaknesses that the Gils ARE facing right now; and stating that yes … Vulpera ARE still an option as the Gob AR) … only for you to throw TONS of headcannon back at those arguments in a desperate attempt to state definitively that GilGoblins WILL be the Goblin AR.

Try look at things from my perspective. Imagine that you are someone who really wants this Niche race to be an AR and you are getting constantly told it won’t happen for whatever reason, that the race is a bad idea and people are trying to push for a race that doesn’t have the same specific kind of appeal as this desired race. This is why I am so defensive.

You also far, FAR too heavily rely on Grapplehammers interest in his creations for those arguments; most notably a single, throwaway line that 99 percent of the Horde fanbase WILL miss if they are not actively looking for it.

Every since I had a look at the PTR, my angle has been a bit different. I don’t think that Hobart Grapplehammer will have much to do with Gilgoblin intelligence at all in fact. In the PTR, it has been shown that they have to be at minimum average intelligence and most of them also have a moral compass. However it is possible that they could be just as intelligent as goblins already or in the process of becoming just as intelligent. You have to wonder how they learned all these professions in which a dire situation and I can tell you that the Naga wouldn’t have taught them this stuff. That second part is speculation, but we do know they are average intelligence at least.

(because you have to go speak to him on the ship right after you get Derek’s body ONLY to have a chance at that line; and I’ve noticed several people on here post that they looked for it and didn’t get it even then). That is NOT a good foundation to build and AR upon!

This I admit, I may have made a mistake myself, but I could have sworn I saw Hobart say this somewhere. I am going to be redoing all the quests and see if I find it myself. It stuck out to me in a strange way. I am willing to admit it could be the Mandela effect. However even without that, this doesn’t discount the possibility that Hobart could do something to buff their intelligence or that they could gain it through some other methods.

I get that you REALLY want GilGoblins as the Gob AR, and I’m not opposed to them as a potential AR … but you need to chill and at least be honest that YES Vulpera COULD be the Goblin’s AR race instead (and that GilBlins CURRENTLY do have several MAJOR issues that will need to be resolved to be a GOOD AR race (and not just a throwaway pallet swap). If you cannot even be THAT honest about this topic, then no one should be discussing it with you. Your Bias is just far too heavy.

You might want to tell this to the hordes of people repeatedly peddle that Vulpera is a surefire allied race. Think about it:

  1. All kinds of content comes out for Gilgoblins including racial icons, female models(with a full set of animations and beautiful voice lines), a faction that has an associated rep grind with it, lore. Barely much mention of it.

A beerfest icon for a likely temporary holiday event comes out for Vulpera. Everyone is talking about it. Mechagnomes also got a mug icon and you didn’t hear much about theirs for a while.

  1. How may times do you hear people talking smack about Vulpera? People are constantly talking about how Gilgoblins are an awful race that should never be playable. Some people even go so far as to say regular Goblins shouldn’t be playable.

  2. Keep in mind Gilgoblin supporters don’t have the same large fanbases as Vulpera supporters do so we usually have to deal with a lot more naysayers than someone who wants Vulpera does.

When you are faced with stuff like this, you are going to be defensive.

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105

Like I said before, I’m actually fairly indifferent to the AR race of the Goblin Core Race; as unless it ties into what I want to see out of that Core race itself (like, for example, supporting a change in leadership from Wix) … its not that important to me. Goblins are my favorite PC race in this game, but I want quality content for them … not placeholder content given to us to placate us.

Here’s the thing. With what we’ve seen so far of their presence in Naz’jatar I for the first time see genuine potential within the GilGoblin species; but I also see that they have only developed enough to have hit a point where their civilization and culture are in their infancy. There is something special locked within the free’d aquatic races of Naz’Jatar, but … they aren’t there yet. As you’ve stated, Goblins took 100 years to create what they have … the GilGoblins are just beginning that process.

On a story level, I just do not see a reason to rush them through that development (or artificially influence their natural development) just so they can be an accessory race to Core Goblins. TBH, they need time to figure out what and who they are as a people (and they aren’t there yet) … hell, by all indications we could be seeing the formation of a third Aquatic NPC Race faction atm (with Merlocks; Ankoan; Gils; Sea Giants; and Makrura). But there is no rush.

Not getting into the mechanics or popularity of things of it all, I don’t expect much in the way of Gob lore-building out of our Allied Race … and the Vulpera are a fully actualized people that are ready for that AR Race commitment; GilGoblins just aren’t…

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106

There is a whole bunch of ways I can counter argue some of this, but for now I think I am going to take a bit of a rest from debating. I’ll say this. One other sort of short race that I really would love if it could be possible were playable murlocs. Not the tall ankoan. I can’t stand tall races. Must be short.