Next season base the power level of news spells on vanilla

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
41

Vanilla boomkin: TRASH.
SoD boomkin: Pretty good, still not great.

Oh My GoD wHy Is StArSuRgE bRoKeN???

42

well maybe adding a skill that is a clone of wrath was never a good idea at all, like, come up with a different ability. yeesh :expressionless:

43

Maybe because balance gaining some random instant cast nuke wasn’t what the class needed for pve.

Balances issue was mana and the base damage of starfire.

In pvp they were well above average. And I suspect the original star surge would be very powerful if you put it and nothing else into era.

So idk I think the real issue with starsurge was its power level compared to the other runes combined with the fact that it’s just straight up not a pve ability (normally instant casts aren’t because of scaling)

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44

Which expansion of wow? Not vanilla lmao, crit chickens were only feared if they were allowed to turret cast starfires and completely ignored, which is just a bad mage at that point.

45

What? Balance is amazing in pvp. Sure it’s not gonna win a duel tournament or be a first pick in wsg.

But balance is very very strong. Any class that can cast a heal is absurd in vanilla. Roots are amazing. Like did we play the same game?

This Druid is normally feral, but I’ve played plenty of balance. Plus I have like 4 other 60. Balance is very powerful

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46

Yup, and chickens are trash. Always were.

They were a meme, nobody ever took them seriously.

47

Yah I mean not to raid. But they are like one of the top wpvp classes hands down.

I prefer Deep balance with charge. But swarm or balance with ns are all good

48

Your class is irrelevant in wpvp. There, fights were decided by numbers. Obviously you’re gonna stroke your ego about a spec winning a fight when you out numbered your enemy.

In an even numbered fight, the side with more meme specs lost.

49

Like I said I normally play feral it’s much more fun. But idk what to tell you balance is good in pvp

And by wpvp I mean 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 in open world.

Only reason balance isn’t literally the best duel spec in the game is because of the duel zone. If balance could fight like they do in the open world they would be disgusting in duels

50

Balance (30/0/21) is my favorite PvP build on my Druid on classic era, but a lot of times PvP just involves me spamming the 2nd highest rank of Moonfire on people to avoid getting interrupted. 2nd highest rank b/c you apply the DoT with max rank and don’t want to overwrite it. It’s kind of cheesy.

Starsurge and Sunfire make it more fluid to play. Now you actually have multiple instant DD spells, instead of just one that you abuse downranking with to pretend like you actually have more than one.

51

Yah moonfire spam I don’t find that fun tbh. I like feral so much more because mana becomes a much more interesting resource.

I also found the balance runes very underwhelm in terms of design. It’s just like you said, pretending you’re doing something other than moonfire spam. It’s an ok direction. But they couldve done something different imo

I actually really like moonkin fc. Defending your banana as moonkin is fun af

52

Keep in mind, they’ve been trying to buff casters through spell power gear. There is way more in the game at these lower levels.

53

calling balance druid above average in PVP has to be a joke

54

I understand your points and concerns, but right now, runes are what are carrying casters and keeping them viable. I don’t think blanket changes are a good idea. The reasons many classes aren’t using their full toolkit is because we don’t have them at level 25, or their base toolkits are just bad.

55

Well yes… and no.

When any individual skill is compared, melee skills have the most opportunity for scaling because of haste, crit, AP, and weapon damage.

A spell has only crit and SP.

In OG Vanilla, rotations were very much a comparison of super simple spammed skills where buff stacking favored melee because of the above, especially since most casters were punished, rather than rewarded, for digging deeper into their kits and weaving in other abilities.

In SoD, rotations aren’t yet known, or even potentially talents modified by runes. There’s nothing stopping Blizzard from giving Warlocks Pandemic (DoTs can crit), Backdraft (can proc massive spell haste), or Decimation (proc instant Soul Fire), that not only give additional means of scaling, but shore up weaknesses in kits.

Then there’s the gear. BFD is unimpressive with regards to ranged and melee weapons, because the DPS of a weapon is almost entirely tied to ilvl, meaning as much as I like the Honed Darkwater Talwar (23.15 DPS), it is replaceable in the next phase with random green BoEs like Ebon Scimitar (25.00 DPS) or rare-mob BoEs like Blade of the Basilisk (25.00 DPS). All of us will be able to snag the lvl38 WSG sword, which is one of the best we can get pre-Gnomer.

On the flip side, casters already have an epic staff that is strictly better than Staff of Jordan, which itself was superior to everything you could possibly get until AV/Spirit of Aquementas offhand combos at lvl60. Even ignoring the crit/hit stats they’re already seeing as well, the amount of SP a caster can have at the moment is fairly large. Gnomer is only going to grant even bigger SP/crit/hit values.

Point being, a SoD caster walking into MC for the first time is going to be way scarier. A SoD physical DPS may have better baseline stats, but not significantly better weapons, simply due to ilvl.

So… we shall see.

56

It’s to late, I already have a MC ready hunter chilling in IF right now. By level 60 he is going to ripe the spin out of Sargeras!!

57

I think the opposite is what needs to happen. More runes need to improve baseline vanilla spells to bring them up to par, not bring runes down to vanilla level.

This season is only popular because of runes. If you make the runes vanilla quality across the board you’ll just have people leave SoD in droves.

Some examples:

  • Serendipity should reduce the mana cost of flash heal by 50% and the stacks should reduce the mana cost of effected spells

  • Strength of Soul should reduce the mana cost of PW:S or increase the value of the shield

  • Twisted Faith should remove the mana cost from mind flay

  • Shared Pain should make SW:P ticks restore mana

  • Mangle Bear should have its rage cost removed and the mangle rune should make swipe apply rake

  • Fury of Stormrage procs should reduce the mana cost of HT significantly

  • Survival of the Fittest could improve rage generation

  • Living Seed could give HoTs a crit chance to improve their efficiency and/or reduce the mana cost of Regrowth

  • Regeneration rune should reduce the mana cost of Arcane Missiles by a lot and possibly alter other spells as well

  • Enlightenment could have higher mana regeneration

  • Fingers of Frost and Burnout could add more to buff up fire and frost

  • Overload could reduce mana costs for effected spells for shaman and should also help LHW

  • Water shield could have spell crits automatically proc an orb

  • Furious Thunder should remove the rage cost from Thunder Clap (and increase the CD if needed)

58

do you have any data to back up this assertion? (the answer is no, you don’t) :expressionless:

1 Like
59

Going to disagree here. I think the goal is a replacement set of spells. They are testing the water, and thus far, it seems the overwhelming majority of players, classic or retail based, love it. I love the changes. The classes are more dynamic and fun to play. I don’t mind if every spell gets replaced, so long as the runes continue to be good and synergize well together.