Isn’t this a good thing though from a class development stand point? It would make more sense for them to become wow classes as opposed to immortal entities of power.
Red Mage is IMHO great, it’s my main job in FFXIV; it’s one of the few classes that has pacing similar to WoW (or can be achieved) due to off-GCD abilities. Bard would perhaps be next-best.
The resource isn’t a gimmick, just do your rotation effectively and let the procs guide your journey to some crazy burst damage.
I had a project going early Shadowbringer’s to record all the dungeons / content with the Red Mage (first attempts).
Sadly, got uh tired of recording / clipping / editing videos so kinda gave up on that journey.
Yeah, the notion that the Tinker hero is the WoW profession is one of the dumbest things to emerge out of the WoW community in a long time. Nothing about the profession outside of its theme matches the Tinker hero, and clearly there’s a huge dividing line between what we see Tinkers like Mekkatorque or Blackfuse are doing, and what we can accomplish through the professions.
Engineering is in place to make goggles and guns, not to replace a class concept, and right now with Goblins lacking a tri-spec class like Paladins and Druids, the game needing another physical ranged class that wears mail, and simply having a class that has unique abilities and concepts absent from the current class lineup, the Tinker class fits the bill entirely.
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I almost feel like AA works so well because it preserves the core component of an RPG, leveling, into an endgame system. But the primary point of AA is “Alternate” - something lost when everything is so combat-driven.
To be fair, and as an afterthought, the “Alternate” could extend to the idea that gear was the first “endgame leveling system”, and there was something beyond that which could add value by continuing to engage with the content once the gear was gotten.
IKR, saying tinkers are covered by engineering is like saying druids are covered by herbalism, or mages are covered by enchanting.
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Should I find the time, I’ll dig up the quote that commented on how it “shares design space.” It’s quite obvious that it doesn’t equate with a playable class, but it is thematically the same thing.
right, so this dragonsworn thing also “shares design space” with existing classes.
You literally didn’t list anything particularly unique about this dragonsworn class. It’s all a pretty generic concept, even though you are using the word “unique” in every other sentence.
Nature magic like the ruby and emerald dragons? Already covered by several classes. Arcane, like blue dragons? Also done. Time magic? Mages do that.
All the things that dragons do in WoW are done by other classes one way or another. You could maybe justify some sort of dragon system, akin to Anima or Azerite, but you can’t really justify a whole new class that won’t “share design space.”
And no, not much of what a tinker does can be done in Engineering. Engineering essentially just makes goggles and mounts. Tinkers heal, tank and dps. It’s a combat thing. Just because two things share a theme doesn’t mean they completely overlap. Engineering goggles overlap with Tinker about as much as Enchanting overlaps with the mage class. Your dragonsworn idea, however, overlaps A LOT with existing themes.
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Fus-Ro-Dah’s everywhere, dammit!
It doesn’t matter if it’s “thematically” the same, what matters is that the player cannot use engineering to participate in class roles. In other words, a Goblin player can’t be Mekkatorque or Gazlowe and pilot a mech into battle. They can’t use technology to tank, heal, or DPS despite their entire racial heritage revolving around technology, and every prominent Gnome and Goblin hero in WoW being capable of piloting mechs and utilizing hero-level technology.
Is there any other race(s) in WoW who doesn’t have a class that matches their racial leaders/heroes? I honestly can’t think of a single one outside of Goblins/Gnomes.
This situation is even worse for Mechagnomes who literally have NO class that reflects who and what they are. You essentially have a cyborg who can only participate in the game by being a medieval class. It’s no wonder that Mechagnomes are by far the least played race in the game.
There’s a big gaping hole in the class lineup that frankly only a Tinker can fill.
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I don’t inherently disagree with you.
I just see how Blizzard has treated the concept. It honestly seems like having the option to be a Hunter with a gun and robot pet with the gadgets of Engineering and the aesthetics of quite a few transmog sets fulfills the vision of a “technological” class for them.
Well yes, lets look at how Blizzard has treated the concept;
They made Gazlowe the Tinker lore hero, tying the Tinker from WC3 to a major WC character, and in HotS they gave him a host of updated abilities. They later placed these Tinker abilities in the Island Expedition teams in BFA.
They gave us Blackfuse; A Goblin so brilliant that he reversed engineered Titan Technology and designed a mech that merged goblin tech and Legion magic.
They gave Mekkatorque, Thermaplugg, Gallywix, Gob Squad, Marin Noggenfogger, Gazlowe, and Light Forged Draenei mechs to fight inside.
You take this and you pile the Tinker abilities from WC3 on top of it, and you have something that you simply can’t recreate with the Hunter class combined with the engineering profession. Why? Because neither contains any of the abilities from WC3, HotS, or those mechs. In addition, you’re never going to get a situation where a Hunter class is going to have an ability to allow you to pilot a mech, and where engineering items are going to match the potency of class abilities.
So what’s the solution?
Bring in the Tinker class. Again, it and the Goblin Alchemist are the ONLY WC3 heroes left that doesn’t exist within the class (or profession) lineup. Interestingly, they would both fit in a new technology class.
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I know there’s a spec, but I’d really like to see a void focused class option, something that’d be real nice for void elves and others who like the theme. Personally, I’m wanting some sort of spell casting void knight. With all the cool abilities and visuals made for the last expansion, rolling them into some sort of class would be great.
Gnomes haven’t really ever interested me as a character I’d play, but I’d likely make a tinker gnome…or even more likely a tinker mechagnome, although fully robotic options are really something I’d like to see added for them. I’d probably just wear the heritage armor all the time until more was added. Customization options that kind tie back to the robotic Northrend gnomes that people wanted would be a nice addition.
That wasn’t what I was referring to. I was speaking to the concessions they’ve made with already playable options. They’ve made quite a few, each of which lessens the chance for a playable Tinker class.
But if we’re talking precedent… do you honestly believe we’ll get a Goblins vs. Gnomes expansion to thematically align with a Tinker class? Or will they remain relegated to sideshow, slapstick comic relief?
Don’t really need a full expansion linked to it, there was enough stuff in BFA that it could have made sense as well. There was quite a bit of gnome and goblin stuff in the spotlight. Shame they didn’t grab the opportunity.
I do agree. But the person I was replying to was cherrypicking precedents to support their argument. I was merely pointing out one glaring omission - that all class additions to this point have been integrally tied to the driving theme of the expansion in which it debuted.
Gotcha, agreed too. It’s why it seems they dropped the ball on this expansion by not adding necromancers.
Although, further fleshing out the realm of death also gives them more room to work with the class.
Yes I do;
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Undermine is the city/continent of the Goblin trade princes. It was supposed to be a continent in Vanilla WoW but was axed due to its proposed complexity. Undermine is still part of WoW lore and has been mentioned constantly.
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There is currently an underground mechanical war raging on Draenor and Azeroth. WoW has never experienced an expansion where the main antagonist is a machine, despite that theme being very common in popular culture and film. A technology-based villain would make sense for a Tinker-based expansion.
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Related to #2, those antagonistic machines are fighting against Blingtrons, Titan constructs. If that threat is on Azeroth, that means there’s a chance for those antagonistic machines to infiltrate and overrun titan facilities and turn their power on us. Considering that MOTHER viewed organic life as a threat due to us being born from the Curse of the Flesh, it stands to reason that there are other Titanic watchers and constructs that also largely view us a potential threat to titan Azeroth. This idea could even push the Tinker concept further because the Tinker could utilize Azerite powered machines.
Bonus: We still haven’t retaken Gnomeregan. The retaking of Gnomeregan could be a huge raid where Goblins, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes work together to liberate the Gnome capitol. For what purpose? Anything expansion related really.
You could even tie all of that together and make it one huge expansion narrative. Sounds like a compelling expansion concept to me, that rather easily accommodates Tinker inclusion. What do you think?
And you believe that has a wide appeal?
What about that concept makes it intriguing enough to warrant an expansion of its own, particularly when all of it is relegated to the sideshow?
At its core, WoW is still a swords-and-sorcery based game. We have other stuff on the periphery, but you detract from the core of the game when you focus on the other stuff. For example, the Vindicaar… it gained a focus briefly, quite outside the general theme of WoW with its sci-fi themes. Now, they can’t continue to use the thing because of how overpowered it is, and that causes plotholes every time you can ask the question, “Why didn’t they just nuke X from orbit?”
So you either transition entirely to a new genre (sci fi in the above case, or steampunk in the Goblins vs. Gnomes case), or you create plotholes whenever you go back to “guy hitting things with sharp metal is threatening.”
The reason you see Undermine (and the Dragon Isles, for that matter) on the initial roadmap is because that development team was interested in world building. The current team builds systems and narratives, and those inform world building, whereas the initial team built the world and added stories and systems therein to fill it.
With this laser focus, it’s harder to make room for those offbeat concepts, unfortunately.
Yes it would have wide appeal because the theme is of wide appeal. Matrix, Terminator, 2001, Age of Ultron, and other films and forms of entertainment utilize a technological antagonist all the time and people love those forms of entertainment. In a game full of ancient and advanced technology, it stands to reason that eventually we would also encounter a technological menace in WoW.
We even have lore to support that menace via the hidden codes indicating a secret robotic war occurring on Azeroth, Titan facilities scattered all around Azeroth, Azerite (literal Titan blood) boosting the power of machines as a fuel source, and Goblin/Gnome technology that the races use on a consistent basis. Put all that together in a narrative where you have a mechanical menace seeking to eradicate all organic life on Azeroth in order to “Save” Azeroth, and you have something with wide appeal. Just have Blizzard’s art team go to town on a steam-punk/titan aesthetic and I think lots of people would love it.
Would people pining for another expansion revolving around Demonic/Necromancer/Void themes like it? Probably not, but we need a break from those concepts IMO.
I enjoy both the Lord of the Rings and Terminator. I wouldn’t mind small references to each other within their own respective universes… but a fullblown cross-over? No thanks.
The sci fi themes in WoW only work because they are on the periphery. To place a focus on it is a step too far, thematically. It is much too far away from the core themes of the franchise. I can’t speak for everyone, but it would certainly alienate myself as I came here with certain expectations given the nearly three decades of history this franchise has.