[News] Return to Azeroth: Catching Up at 120

i 3rd that one please guive us av


I might be able to stomach leveling some of my Alliance AR toons.

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Not a fan of the av event, it was horribly unbalanced and buggy. Somethings just not right if in most balanced forms of pvp you go from say a maybe 51-49% wr to loss, a 87-13% leaned map was ridiculous when you had to work ten times as hard to get half as far and basically solo cap all the towers without breaking 10x health cc getting “lol alliance doesn’t kill our 190k hp commanders” while things the ally drek had 1/10th the health for weeks and a player vs improper scale design. If it was reused a better balance than que red to win or a asymmetrical side switch for both teams or for the side of the map you start on to be random.

It’s kinda unfair that you could be doing like perfect play, like taking on five more geared people on a stealthy alt, back cap every tower, and still lose even when ally tried against a good or bad horde that was so used to being carried by the map they didn’t even leave anyone to defend but still won anyways.

They could always easily one shot the 1/10th hp war commander even with half their players missing and respawn and win fine. While the alliance got stuck in a death funnel while 10x drek did nothing. Not to mention horde summons like the forest lords literally having a boss that scaled to a literal triple the damage and could wipe entire 20 man raids with one shots to the base while the ally lord usually died to 1-5 stragglers by the time they got to mid.

Korraks was a version of av people did when heroic kills were the main source of honor in pvp. Fair enough they wanted people to stop ignoring the map and questing all day but it was horrible design. Three games in for cluster messes and i was out, forget the 28% mount bar, it wasn’t even worth playing for ally unless you wanted to afk and que to lose when a 90% ally loss in 10 horde minutes was more xp a hour then spending a literal 40 minutes to two hours ally to reset mobs and players and back cap undefended towers and be quote ‘outplayed 90-1’ by horde that literally never defended a single tower but still killed the ally commander at full strength with all four commanders up while 0 tower drek kept fearing people out of the room and resetting to full hp with 10x the hp. That’s completely inane player design.

It’s like playing rock paper scissors with a handgun or trying to play a fair match and get loot when the enemy team starts five minutes ahead in 10 minute win condition map while ally needed a 40 minute long game for tower resets and killing a 10x up boss that the horde could STILL easily kill with even just two towers up while a 0 tower drek could fear people out of the room and still took 30+ People to kill or wipe which left no defense in towers while the horde could deathball to victory. People pointed at the 10 minute 90% winrate horde and 10% winrate 40-120 minute alliance wins and said " see it’s not impossible for ally to win, they just have to spend 1-2 hours resetting and killing 10x hp mobs while resetting and wiping horde who still can autowin by putting a single typhoon druid in a tower or walking on a 10x health commander to break cc and wipe a whole tower! "

Please reward balanced game play plz, not that. People only qued for the xp and sure horde got a free pinata but nothing Is more discouraging than trying to win with 5v1s on a ungeared druid alt, back capping 5 towers, and still losing with four towers down because 20 some odd horde killed the ally boss with 20 people while you had three bunkers uo. Just absolutely unbalanced to a point i actually started missing “checkers but my younger brothers game pieces can fly” i played as a kid with my younger brother just to get him to play.

I know it’s a game but by God. The player experience as ally vs horde que to win even when afk, lose on ally even when you 5 cap on a alt was dumb asf. It felt even worse than the deliberately joke card munchkin where they literally gave cards to make the gm girlfriend instantly win the game if they drew a card or get all the rare loot. It’s not player vs player it’s que to afk and die since none of the 10v1s you do even matter and you still lose even when you make a perfect flawless 4 cap. Oh what’s this?? TWO TOWER HORDE ALREADY KILLED him in the five minutes you spent recapping since he has 1/10th the health.

Never mind constantly getting told you’re on the losing team using op communications to win even on alts and being a ex mythic raider on both sides and pvper who could kill anyone in a duel no matter the spec or off spec. Horde it might have been great to join in to always winning for joining red winning 90-10 in 10 minutes getting twice as much experience per active minute. Ally experience was terrible if you wanted to try.

Literally you could not win without spending 40 minutes resetting the map and horde could still easily kill a 2 cap ally commander effortlessly while 3 cap drek was still prone to randomly criting tanks and fearing people out the room to reset while having no nearby gys that DIDN’T send all horde on offense to your base or a mob gauntlet. Korraks was one of the worst gameplay experiences, xp or not I’ve ever had in 10 years playing this game. I would rather have fun and enjoyable gameplay, than suffer through the worst game balance design where que to lose and give up because the map design lets you lose even on relatively perfect play is terrible imo.

As a horde i can possibly imagine que for free best 2x active exp in the game eating a pizza and getting 4x the normal exp with effortless 10 minute 87% matches was great for them. For ally "guys just spam que, the map is rigged, there’s no point trying when the only way to win Is to do a whole reset and spend 2 hours resetting the map when they somehow cap our own base before we even get to it.

And like I’ve normally won like 60-70% of all symmetric bgs I was in with call outs and maps. What I’d be more interested in is, if people like pvping to level, great!, Let people pvp as a alt style on 47-53% win rate maps or just use the spawn points and mob locations of modern for a reason av. And boost the exp by 200%. Oh and make the +100% bg exp looms more obtainable or vendor purchaseable as LITERALLY only like 1 or so person can obtain it per server every few months on a limited time event that needs to be repeated for at least 36 hours. Make them only require 1 loot for say 1-60, 2 loots for 60-100 and three loots maybe if pushing it for 100-120.

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Will read when I get my too many Vulpera alts up to 120.


Thanks for this thread!

Catching this little nublet up. :slight_smile:

This is a blatantly false and borderline hostile statement that does not reflect the game. While it is true that many activities in the game will take more time than others, if you want to level to 120, acquire the legendary cloak and face off against the final boss of the expansion; N’zoth you are very much able to do so and without any of the time gating the person I was quoting ranted about.

Other things like certain Allied Races will take some time to unlock, but that’s simply the nature of all MMO’s. If you see something you want, you do have to work for it; but there is always a payoff at the end.

Honestly, I would advise ignoring this poster and forming your own opinion because a lot of what he claims is simply not true. The game is actually a lot more fun than he gives it credit for, and given that he either was willfully ignorant or blatantly lied outright about the essences in several cases; it make one wonder if he’s not working for another company and engaged in fifth column since he’s only posted once.

If you earn a rank 3 essence that is for DPS, Heals, or Tanking you earn all three now, which is a marked upgrade over how older players had to. Rather than relying on a clearly hostile poster with deep anger issues, I recommend returning players read Blizzard’s own words on the subject.

Also welcome back to World of Warcraft. Hope you have a blast and enjoy yourself. ^ ^


As always: MOAR DOTS! That is all.

So how do alts catchup on neck levels to stay competitive?

Will there be an AP boost like what happened in legion at the end of the tier to equalize our neck levels like what happened with artifact weapons?

What do players do who switch mains? I want to gear them up but gear has little point if our neck levels hold us back from even equipping essences.


I have 5 level 120, aside from my main, it is extremely difficult to advance my alts. I am sorry but I am not willing to grind HOA on all my alts again, so I guess it’s my main until the next xpac comes out.


This is why BFA turned into a ghost town and they were FORCED to re release classic to save subs lol


I wish I had some advice. As a returning player the most daunting thing is getting essences. I really don’t want to spend time grinding nazjatar follower xp instead of doing 8.3 content, same for doing eternal palace, which could take weeks. you added a currency, why the additional rank 3 requirement? I’d rather play 8.3 content in 8.3 and get the essences that way.


Without any of the time gating? Do you realise that quite a lot of classes require essences from Nazjatar and Mechagon, which are all time gated if you’re a returning player. It takes a fair amount of time and effort to get a raid group together and do a full heroic clear for 3 separate weeks just to obtain your Eternal Palace essences, and that’s only the beginning. You probably won’t even get invited to the raid group unless you’re decently geared. The single biggest issue for a returning player is the essence grind, the rest of it is relatively easy though.


Again, someone who lacks reading comprehension. These are the X,Y,Z players I mentioned earlier. I’m sorry, was the question “How to scrape by with the bare minimum and defeat N’Zoth” or was it “Catching up at 120”?

Nowhere in my explanation was I angry or hostile, this is perceived by you as such because you cannot accept criticism, in game or otherwise, all of which is factual. Then you go on a tangent about unlocking Allied Races?

Where did I lie in several cases? I mentioned essences twice in my post. Once explaining that you have to re-earn a rank 3 essence of a different specialization, which is still true regardless of how you now acquire them, be it through echoes or prior, regrinding the essence. Second, having to grind outdated content for access to particular essences, this is 100% still absolutely true.

But I have the deep seeded issues…hey, yeah.

Anyway, of course players can form their own opinion on what’s fun or not, that was never the discussion.

I continue to play the game because I also enjoy it, but that does not mean it cannot be criticized, especially in regards to a question like ‘Catching up at 120’ at this stage of the game with it’s current mechanics and restrictions. This couldn’t be more true for a main character, let alone an alt.


Yeah you do have issues. Major ones and your hostility toward the Developers is Palpable. Also liking yourself with your classic toon is kind of cute also. xD I could do that too, but I won’t. I won’t rise to your bait. I’ll instead maintain what I said before.

Most of what you said is not truthful and is designed to send a false message to players. While there are time-gates, none of them are essential to defeat N’zoth. Blizzard’s core statement is totally accurate while yours is designed to create unrest and talk about how the game ‘was’ not as it is.

Get your anger checked mate.


That wasn’t their classic character, it was my default when i logged on to respond and i didn’t notice as the name is the same. Couldn’t agree more with Clasm though.

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I mean yeah if you take a look at sims like the difference between a fresh 120 in say, 460 ilvls with dungeons only, and then a player with the gear, there can be common missing damage.

15k dps random 460 120 lvl boost: green cruicibles of flame, R24 1 essence neck, no azerite traits past 1st
Simmed talents potential: 20k-35k dps (-15k for unoptimal talents, -10k dps for talent choice)

  • -15k for missing major essence
  • -15k dps per missing r3 minor essence (3 x 5k)
  • -10k-30k dps for unoptimal azerite traits or not actually being able to use them
  • -10k dps for not having actually any traits past the first 2 rows, (or running two trait zones), or having no information on procs per minute and choosing biggest looking ones. (which can lead to bad combos or up to -10k dps on the same 3 pieces just by minor traits alone)

So right off the bat, it’s completely possible for say, in a real dungeon situation. Maybe like in a average non teaming dungeon for a dps class to do 30-60k dps overall for a 10-15 lvl average. (With even the last tier specs able to still do say 70k dps like 2200 io M raiding warlocks, M raiding spriests played at a 90% parse to other 80k dps classes fotm), or hold up with each other. But it’s also entirely possible for the same player to say, switch from a 2200 healer to a green essence 0 experience dps spec and do their rotation and flop a whopping 15k dps in a dungeon that needs 50k dps a person to time.

Maybe 30k dps with the right rotation, but it’s also incredibly easy to sim and see 50k of your dps come from azerite, essences, and optimized gear while you can have another say 2000 io holy priest or resto shaman player with 2220 io and 470 ilvl that struggles to do 20k dps on their green crucible of flames offspec build. And then multiply the grind by 4.

Honestly imo it’s a great change to essences of nyalotha. And people can pick, but maybe, you could keep the grinds the same, but remove or half the timegating? (Etc, every pvp chest loot gives those weird loot things. Honor rate for conflict and strife goes down to 15k, with rank4s already cosmetic and set to expire lowered down

The Eternal palace essence could also be made to drop in any expac or maybe M+ dungeon or nazjatar world quests/dailies.

I mean 8.3 still has the cloak grind so they’ll still have things to do. But maybe catchup could be looked at too since these are great changes but i don’t think anyone who wants to play with a friend wants to see them be unviable for 3 weeks and turn toward player toxicity flaming and quiting the game over being a fresh boosted 450 and only doing 10k dps.

Like… i don’t know guys, you say you don’t like it when we only play with peers, but when we join, we get yelled at for being broken even though the level between a 90% parsing of any class can maybe be like 70k dps warlocks and spriests to 80k of the other at 90% parses with other dhs also doing 70k? Like… im seeing like 4 other Dhs that do 70k with 3 other spriests and 2 warlocks that can do 70k dps and a Eshaman that can do 75k or 80k aoe dps a dungeon too.

Then i play with my friends and see them flailing around and when they go class but then see the shaman or the spriest doing 70k to their 10k they respond by ripping their hair out louder.

So umm… in normal small word language, “how get people play game???”

Hi Clasm’s ‘friend’. Please stop spamming.

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How conveniently you ignore how pathfinder will affect a new or returning player’s progress in catching up.


Things that I said nowhere, exhibit B.

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Deception by omission.