I understand where your coming from, but disc has been the go to for years now in mythic raiding which is all he cares about. Holy is the go to in heroic but disc in mythic, so i cant fault him too much but we get your point
There caps i mentioned it in the priest beta for you
Iād like the left side capstone for Disc to become a buffed version of Void Shield from Shadow.
PW:S having a CD feels good imo. It having a CD and still being weak feels bad but simply making it an enormous shield at the cost of 1 GCD is problematic.
How about a capstone talent making 100% of the damage you deal charge your PW:Shields? That way you could have 2 PW:S out with no haste, maybe 3 with serious Haste investment and be able to keep those shielded targets healthier while doing damage.
That way PW:S could become powerful without all of it being loaded into a single GCD. It would also fix one of the most problematic parts of Discs toolkit, which is lacking Atonement throughput in smaller groups.
It would be a large increase in throughput in smaller scale content relative to fairly minor throughput gains in raid that would also compete with Lights Wrath and other raid throughput oriented talents.
Yep, thatās been the meta. Although I wonder if thatāll change in DF. The more I look at the new trees and read these discussions the more Iām wondering if they might have effectively lowered the skill floor on disc, raised it on holy and opened up a couple of new possibilities of ways to really break some fights.
madskillz said outright disc will still be diffcult. and i agree, nothings changed. could you outline why you think disc will be easy. in legion pws was better then SL, we had plea which they removed cause it was too many buttons and now they added back renew. Plus disc has flash heal now, pom if they want iit etc. SFP, gming CR. If anything its now trickier.
and disc plays the same wayā¦ pre- emptive. nothing chamged. we just got better in keys is all
I certainly did not say āeasyā, I said easier.
Iām seeing a lot more reactive healing spells to choose from, i.e. less reliance on atonement.
Stronger shields, which buys more time to react. Atonement management slightly easier with a few tweaks and talents. Iād say a lot of this translates into the potential for a lower skill floor.
Conversely, on holyās side Iām worried about their mana management, and I think the spec could struggle to balance raw HPS and damage with the choices it faces. Possibly a slightly higher skill floor.
Not saying any form of healing is āeasy mode.ā Just relative to where we are now.
Historicaly i found holy whack a mole except WoD chakras,
The thing is any time a spec has a lot of buttons it adds complex game play, aka shadow. Look at BM, F all to do, cast on the move, easy mode.
What are you seeing that im not? pws is not THAT much stronger. I dont feel its at legion levels. But pws to be effective is pre-emptive.
is it? people will be like should i renew, pws, smend, radiance, flash heal etc, You see what i mean? More buttons more choice more complexity,
Peoples isues have been anticipation. I see raids same same. Keys easier ish
where do you think holy has become more difficult:?
typing one hand with a sleeping 1 yr old sucks
Well without playing it for myself itās hard to say. But glancing at the tree, Trinity makes PW:S almost like a mini-beacon. Or more forgiving anyway.
And having more reactive tools, to me, makes things easier. Itās like yes please, Iād rather have more healing tools than not. That means multiple ways to handle a situation. Even having HoTs out doing their thing while damage is ramping is an improvement.
And most of all, for disc damage is healing. Thereās no trade-off. Holy has the potential to make a lot of trade-offs for damage, yeah go them, but when exactly to do that is going to be tough to judge.
Trinity? as in the pvp talent. Are we getting that in pve? Im confused atonement is like a mini beacon yes but mate pws is on a cd. You cant spam it and in DF when the heal pools are 100k + its not going to be huge. Its ok but im not sure what you think pws is going to be
What are these more reactive tools my friend? They took away more tools from legion because people struggled with disc as it was and they wanted to make it easier. I was there bro. More buttons did not make it easier for the laymen. Thbere was a reaosn they took away plea.
What makes disc tricky as ive said is the knowing of the fight and damage patterns. Holy is reactive. So nothing ive seen changes those styles. What made holy strong season three/four was rot style fights and damage patterns that were different for disc. CN was a classic example of when the timers are in discs favor what we can do.
Nothin has changed in raiding mi amigo. If you doubt me, play disc in DF. not in lfr tho. thats cheating 
Now Iām confused because the talent tree I was looking at said Trinity at the top. Maybe Wowhead is just bugged, idk. Haha, I really do hope they bring Trinity into PvEā¦ they have been bringing PvP talents in left and right.
And just to put a cap on this discussion, my worries for holy in DF are, currently itās not possible to build a wretched hpriest healer. (Or youād have to go well out of your way to do everything opposite the Icy Veins guide to do so). I mean, you could use it wretchedly, but you just stop healing and do your DPS and thatās the trade-off for the most partā¦
I can see a lot of builds in DF sacking so much HPS for damage that the spec becomes a wretchedly bad healer. And how do they balance things? Do they balance around holy taking every healing talent available and no damage talents, or a mix of the two, or what? It all depends on the tuning and the experience of players but I could see holy re-gaining its reputation as a disaster area spec.
I ran my eyes over the holy tree just then. So many talents to take its actually tricky to decide what you want. So many options. I dont see holy struggling in DF at all my friend
My first attempt i didint even hit the capstone abilties
Choice is good, but like you said āitās tricky to decideā, i.e. hence my original point about holy having a new higher skill floor. Heck maybe weāll see Max having a roundtable discussion and theyāll be talking about needing holy for its added DPS. Thatās a world that could exist with these new talents.
Or Blizz could be Blizzā¦
I hope Blizz makes a good expansion. I noped out after SL 9.0 went on for what seemed like 3 years, re-rolled a new server, made a few alts and generally sat out all of SL. Iād love for the game to be great again and make me want to get back to a raiding guild. Well not mythic raiding, aināt no one got time for that.
Green/blue text in the talent choices are āif you take this other talent, this is how this talent will readā and is referencing PvP talents or old removed talents. Trinity is a PvP talent, but if you look at the void tendrils/sheer terror node, it references Mind Bomb which is gone now.
Havenāt played around with disc since 9.0 and I was just browsing the tree casually at the time. To me it almost made sense to have a longer atonement on shield after they added the CD and theyād added so many PvP talents to the trees I figured maybe it actually happened. Still think itād be a cool change, though.