Name 3 that don’t have gear progression
Whether or not “pvp only” players want to admit it since the very start of mmorpgs the core elements have always been. Roleplay game + gear progression
Weren’t people mostly raiding for Tier pieces? Since catalyst just came out and drop chance so low in vault for PVP boxes, pretty sure people were raiding / M+ to increase their odds for Tier
Ya I was being sarcastic. Soft caps absolutely haven’t stopped people stacking vers at what was it, 25%?
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You say this like times can’t change, and design philosophies can’t change. The level of borrowed power absolutely has.
Swtor, ESO, to an extent GW2, and Final Fantasy XI kind of.
Edit: muh mmorpg, uh no. WoW has basically turned into a single player sandbox game where you are able to do 99% of the game without having to socialize or interact with anyone. An absolute shame and I think this is one of the biggest detractors to the game as it stands.
Yeah and tier stats usually suck. I’m waiting for 4 pc because if I equip 2 pc I’m nerfing myself lmao
Because the power of your character is the most palpable and noticeable form of reward for the progress you make. I understand the arguments people have for minimizing power gains in the competitive environment to maintain the best balance possible, but I cannot tell you how many quality players I’ve seen quit this game (especially during legion) because their effort developing their characters were met by minimal difference
But you also have to look on the flipside at participation uptick in Legion, especially when it came to alts. I get that some people won’t like it because they really do value getting duelist gear and going into Random BG’s and vaporizing fresh 60’s, but in Legion the ladder was tenfold more active, everybody and their mother had alts, and PvP was accessible.
Honestly I don’t care about templates one way or the other. True WoD style gearing w/ a better Conquest catch up would be the absolute best outcome for all involved.
Edit: templates were not the only nor major contributing factor for an active ladder before someone jumps on that
I want people to be able to feel the power gains of their character as they progress, and I also want the entry barrier to competitive PVP to be one that can be managed solely doing casual content. Which is why I suggested…
I wouldn’t call these ancient games modern buuut.
I get times change but the vast majority of players want to upgrade their gear and gain player power. It’s not a popular opinion from pvp only players because usually they can’t be bothered to do the smallest thing in the game (whining over Zereth Mortis rep which was literally 2 world quests) but “we” are the minority in the game.
They could make pvp gearing a lot simpler if they added a pvp only stat and the gear was useless in pve but this goes against their whole game concept
And the whole game concept is something I like, personally.
It keeps activity higher in all content if you need to participate in more than one endgame pillar to get your 100% BIS
Agree. I personally don’t like that I spend 8 months waiting for new content and q arena sometimes bust mostly do laps in stormwind. I really don’t care that people have mental breakdown over having to do stuff in the game. I’d prefer more to do.
The key here is the added content to do should be difficult and engaging. Zereth mortis was not. Korthia was for a little bit but quickly turned to repetition. That’s not good either.
But having to do some high keys and step into raiding a bit would give people something to do and player power should come from my time spent. I honestly believe with my whole heart if that doesn’t sound good to you why are you playing an MMO?
I have a full time job and a kid so I’m not on the game all day I’ve just been done with ZM and been fully upgraded pvp gear for a while now and I will have nothing to do for months while waiting in-between arena qs. That’s bad design their should be more content with more rewards. 
I just don’t know of anyone that enjoys upgrading their gear from 0-duelist/elite
Do you agree there should be a singular conquest set, and a singular honor set? If no, when did you start playing / PvPing if you don’t mind me asking?
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Well if you start qing at the start of the season you get a new piece press the button and it’s fully upgraded. Even my alt is like that now I just cap - buy - upgrade from honor I got doing rated arenas.
Only negative is new characters or starting late which is just a bad idea in seasonal games
you c an keep people playing by offering cool cosmetics and having a game that doesnt feel like a burden or 2nd job. you used to have 2 sets of gear honor and arena point gear and you pushed rating to get more points per week and you played because you enjoyed it. rewards dont have to mean player power and to the point of people like to feel like they are getting stronger, well they can just get better at the game to feel the power increase. most people want an even playing field
One shot old content for cosmetics every single player has you mean? What a joke
There’s not a single cool cosmetic in the game except archeology weapons and CURRENT mythic full sets
Oh yes, absolutely 100% this should be the case but this is a whole other rant from me where I feel like the adding of multiple raid difficulties instead of just Normal/Heroic created this absurd ILVL change with every single subsequent tier.
It used to be that a tier would have minimal ilvl difference. ICC for example was 251 for 10N, 264 for 10H/25N, and 277 for 25H. (Not including weapons from LK, ofc).
That difference in item level is what made one honor set and one conquest set a viable PVP gearing system and I think we need to go back to that for multiple reasons.
Condensing item levels takes care of number bloat through and across expansions.
Condensing item levels lowers the barrier for re-entry for people who took a break.
Condensing item levels makes gear from the previous tier still viable in many cases. (Example: Death’s Choice trinket from TOGC use persisted well into ICC 25H)
Realistically, most of WOW’s current problems all boil down to the fact that Blizzard went from 2 difficulties of raid to 4.
you just said up there you wanted to be able to upgrade gear from doing bgs
You should be able to. There’s casual pvpers that don’t want to do rated they need a progression path. Should be slower or not as good as top end arena but the gap shouldn’t be so wide that I can q random BG pop abomb limb and erase the team fight in seconds
Kind of a fried take. Some of the most aesthetic sets in the game are from MoP cmodes, or Elite Sets from seasons that weren’t hyper inflated and didn’t unlock at 1800 so not everybody got them. WoD cmode weapons too
It’s not hard make good cosmetics that are time limited. This isn’t even to speak to the fact that they could do 1 set for 1800, 1 for 2.4, bump up glad, stuff like that. High res vanilla sets for RBG’s, better seasonal illusions, etc.
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