The feedback doesn’t represent developer time committed to changing anything. The community council likely will never be controlling that.
Are the people that work on armor art also working on game play issues or are they completely different departments?
I have always been under the impression they are separate departments. If they are separate departments then trying to limit feedback to certain issues would leave entire teams with no feedback to work with.
The issue I have is the developers put this on themselves when they made the CC that’s their feedback forum and honestly I’ve seen only 3 CC members seriously try and provide feedback in my eyes
I can understand that.
Some brief Twitter drama just happened with another Council Member saying that you shouldn’t criticise WoW if you aren’t playing it anymore.
Another council member told him to shut up (and his wife, who is also on the council) and the wife deleted her entire twitter, and he deleted the tweet lmao
Neither he nor his wife have posted anything in quite some time, either.
It’s the streamer, yeah? Love to see it.
Apologies for the double post, but I just want to say that I think the person I dislike most on the council is Halite. As a roleplayer I’m glad to see someone making topics concerning the playerbase but almost every time I see her posts part of me gets infuriated, she throws a wide brush at problems with solutions that are unlikely to be implemented. Part of my dislike comes from a unique problem that RPers have, which is that whatever server someone comes from will affect their view and influence what they think are or are not problems, which makes most of the RPers on the council being from EU a problem; I can’t think of anyone on the council who is from MG or WrA, which means that American RP concerns aren’t being represented. There’s a cultural difference between the American and European RP servers, mostly in that European servers are (surprisingly) much more conservative and their server communities reflect that. There are people who will go more extreme in RPing racist or sexist themes, which is a whole different can of worms, but their conservativeness makes it that their communities go on witch hunts against people that might be viewed as not sharing their values.
A prominent example of this is that they have a major problem in being anti-ERP, to the point that ANYONE who is suspected of ERPing, whether they have or not, will get blacklisted, regardless of it being between two consenting and proven adults. Guilds with drama between each other have created fake characters of existing players and made screenshots of false ERP scenarios to get innocent people in trouble in their communities. One aspect of the Community Council is that it is a political position, in that it can affect change and people will or will not agree with your opinions, and Halite definitely reminds me of actual conservative politicians who try to put limits on media because of “child safety”, which is an actual concern of hers. So when I see her bringing up Goldshire as being an issue because of “think of the children!” I actually get pissed off. It’s true that children should not engage in adult activities, but it is much more important that parents actually do the important duty of parenting their children and knowing what they do online instead of having Blizzard play baby sitter and restrict their playerbase because of a bogeyman that’s used as a weapon for server politics.
It can’t be denied that there is a substantial portion of the WoW playerbase that engages in adult activities such as ERP, it is a community in itself, and to go against it actually does more harm than good. Goldshire is well known amongst the playerbase and people know what they’re getting when they go there. It’s not just a hub for this type of player but also a containment zone, it prevents people from taking what’s within it elsewhere to more innocent places. Bringing punishment there destroys the gates and spreads the “problem” out. Not just that, but to try taking something away will have those who engage in it still doing so regardless or wanting more of it, as seen in prohibition to alcohol and weed.
She wants punishment given to those who puts descriptions she doesn’t like in players TotalRPs; TotalRP is a role-playing addon which roleplayers use to describe their characters, so that people know what they look like and what their personalities are. Sometime recently, I think near the end of BFA, a report function was added in the addon to report players who break the TOS through it. Contrary to what might be popular opinion, this wasn’t added to combat the ERP “problem” but to punish players who doxxed others by putting other players personal information in their descriptions. This is a problem with much more important real world consequences, not adults who freely decide to engage in roleplay of their choice. Stopping that is the actual real world safety that should be given precedence.
I do not trust Halite to make good for the RP community. There should be someone on the council who contrasts her viewpoints, and gives player concerns from American servers. She has an agenda which I suspect is to boost the reputation she has on her server, which could affect RP servers as a whole, servers that are made of numerous players who don’t share her opinions. What she wants is a slippery slope in restricting the activity of roleplayers: first it’s ERPers, next it’s gay characters not being allowed to express themselves. That might seem a stretch, but one action usually leads to another.
I feel like there’s a correlation between rpers, social media, and adult content drama, but I can’t think of anything.
All I knew about her was her great post about the X-45 Heartbreaker, as well as RNG and FOMO in general.
This is what I’m referring to, along with some other comments she’s made.
Halite is typing. Get ready for the drama!
I’m’a be the peace-maker here for a second.
Let Halite type their response before judging. They might just be clarifying their initial perspective into one that Evelysaa will find less problematic.
Let’s wait to judge until we’ve seen the content.
Okay, uhm, I think you have misread my post a little bit, so I’ll just start out by stating that I am by no means on a witch hunt against ERP. Here’s a quote from my post, notice the highlighted bit:
I’m not against adult content in of itself. I don’t really engage with it myself, but I know a lot of people who do, and I do not want to take that away from them, nor do I think they are causing others harm by doing it. My concerns are all about responsibility, and to punish those who do not take their own responsibility very seriously. I don’t want to ban people because they do something they enjoy.
Required reading for what’s ahead: Blizzard’s Code of Conduct (https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/42673). To quote the important part of it:
“When participating in communication of any kind (chat, voice communication, group finder), you are responsible for how you express yourself. You may not use language that could be offensive or vulgar to others. Hate speech and discriminatory language is inappropriate, as is any obscene or disruptive language. Threatening or harassing another player is always unacceptable, regardless of language used. Violating any of these expectations will result in account restrictions. More serious and repeated violations will result in greater restrictions.”
This is true, and I hope to hear from other RPers from any and all parts of the world. I can only really represent myself and in part the community I’m from, and sometimes there’s been expectations put on me to represent someone else - which I just can’t do. I can’t even properly represent the community I’m from, because there’s a lot of people in there that disagree with me, too. It would be nice to diversify the discussions by adding more voices to the discussion.
I can’t really speak for American RP culture, but I can certainly say that European RP culture at large doesn’t fully fit into this idea. It is true that there are subcultures within our community that definitely fits these descriptions, and there is a lot of drama and accusations being thrown around regarding ERP and all of that - and most of this is pretty bad, not gonna lie. Slutshaming and kinkshaming isn’t all that uncommon, and a lot of it leads directly to harrassment - which I think is bad and should also be punished, because that’s against the rules. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done there, from a progressive point of view, and I for one want to see more work being done there - not by Blizzard, but by the community itself.
I’m not really using this argument to enforce draconian laws, restrict the playerbase, or even target and harrass this portion of the community. I’m asking for better oversight over Goldshire (which I’ll remind you, I used as an example to a wider issue that applies to the entire game), because players within there are not only in breach of the Code of Conduct, but also because there is actual criminal behaviour going on in there. The problem isn’t the ERP, or the people who participate in it, the problem is that they’re doing so in an unregulated public space. Just because I don’t think you should be allowed to jack off in the middle of a public space, particularly where there are children, doesn’t mean I don’t think you shouldn’t be allowed to jack off at all.
It’s also not just about the parents’ responsibility here. Not everyone in Goldshire are engaging in criminal behaviour that involves child abuse, I don’t even think there’s a lot of it in the first place. Obviously, a responsible adult in Goldshire will immediately turn away any twelve-year-old that walks inside. But if these same adults also have a very public profile that goes into vivid detail of everything, they are exposing these same twelve-year-olds to sexual content without asking for their consent first, without asking their age first, because this is of public record. They might not even mean to or realise that they are exposing these children to it, or for that matter, other adults who aren’t consenting to this. Should they get banned for that? The Code of Conduct says “Violating any of these expectations will result in account restrictions. More serious and repeated violations will result in greater restrictions.”. You’ll probably be left off with a warning to start with.
But… not everyone does, and that’s the problem. Parents especially don’t know what’s going on in there. There are no signs that says “18+” in Goldshire. There are no checks in place to verify that everyone that goes in there is both old enough to give consent, and actually giving their consent. You need prior knowledge to actually know that Goldshire is a place where this sort of thing happens.
It doesn’t spread the problem out, because it’s not just about Goldshire, it’s about the whole world of Warcraft. Everywhere is subject to the same Code of Conduct, everything you do in public, whether you are in Goldshire, Stormwind, Orgrimmar, is subject to the Code of Conduct. You are free to do whatever you please in private, and no one is stopping you from that. In fact, if people report you and you get banned because you ERP in private with another consenting adult, they are in the wrong.
I believe this is the correct quote from the TRP3 report system:
Beyond this update, be aware that all roleplay profile contents will be logged and can be reported to Blizzard for abuse. An issue arose within the past year or so where some individuals were extensively using roleplay profiles to harass others on an ongoing basis, or to publish someone else’s personal details. As such, implementing the reporting capability became a high priority for profile addons, and it has been done in time for 8.0 prepatch launch.
This means you should clean up your profiles now. The guidelines on acceptability are roughly what you’d see in public chat channels. If you wouldn’t say it in /say, don’t put it in your profile. These reports are all reviewed exclusively by Blizzard – addon authors have no power or influence whatsoever, so please don’t hurl abuse at any of them if your profile is ever reported.
That said, I ask that everyone exercise common courtesy when it comes to reporting. Don’t abuse the report system – abuse of the report system to harass someone can result in actions against your account, instead of the person being reported. Furthermore, please use your judgement when it comes to reporting – try to reserve reports for profiles that incite hatred or violence, that harass and target individuals, or that publish personal or harmful details on others. These sorts of profiles, while few and far between in a community like this, are serious enough problems that this needed to be done.
I never said this was the reason it was added, but it has come to be that. As stated above, the only things that fly in TRP3 profiles are things that are deemed acceptable in similar public channels, and so, the Code of Conduct is a good guideline.
TL;DR: read the start of this “essay” that got way longer than I first intended it to be, it’s a bad habit of mine :<
Finally, I just want to say I don’t want to cause any drama. I just want to make sure my points are clear and properly represented; I don’t even think I can try to convince anyone to see it my way. If you don’t like me, or what I’m writing about, that’s all good with me.
When are you going to criticize the writing of shadowlands now that is over so we don’t experience this in 10.0 or any future patch. Edit: not asking you to bash like I did but offer some criticism
It’s on my list somewhere down the line. I’ve been trying to approach it properly by doing research and stuff along the way, so it’s taking me forever to do, sadly :<
I appreciate at least someone is acknowledging that the story could be much better. Thank you. Just I feel like a lot of us are disappointed with shadowlands
Mmkay. I’m about to get my pizza. When I come back, expect a lengthy “I see both sides of this”, middle of the road mini-essay. I got some feelings on this and plan to express them after delicious pizza.
I just want someone to point out how the story could be better. Edit: I am glad that at someone acknowledges that so I have no qualms now I will leave this thread.
You clearly think it’s causing some kind of harm if it’s something you’re going against. There’s no reasonable concern for responsibility if it’s not for the safety of others.
You want to punish those people though, what punishment do you expect to be given to solve the problem you have? The only logical solution is to ban those people, which I think is draconian. This is all about restricting the people there who you disapprove of.
This child abuse you’re mentioning is hyperbolic and overblown, you even admit you don’t think there’s a lot of it. No one is getting hurt from reading some naughty words on a screen. In the US the game is rated by the ESRB as a T rating with a Users Interact descriptor, with the description for that being, “Indicates possible exposure to unfiltered/uncensored user-generated content, including user-to-user communications and media sharing via social media and networks”. This is a warning for what users should expect before they buy the game, a game which requires an account owned by an adult, and it is assumed that whoever owns that account is the one who is playing on it. Anyone who opens a TRP profile is doing so of their own accord, thus of their own consent.
Don’t act like the majority of players don’t know what Goldshire is about. World of Warcraft has been around long enough that most new players are joining the game because of recommendations from friends, and if those people are playing on an RP server then it’s unlikely that someone didn’t tell them about the place or even that ERP is something that happens. The only race that starts near Goldshire is Humans, making it less than a 1/23 chance of someone new going their uninformed, less than that because of the inclusion of Exile’s Reach. Which, now that I think about it, is required for new players to start at along with doing BFA zones for leveling, which means the vast majority of people going to Goldshire are doing so because it’s a place they’re seeking out.
So why did you specify Goldshire?
You’ve been contradicting the points you make in your posts about this, which to me make for weak arguments. I’m glad that you’ve addressed actual problems in your post here, and even if I’m coming off as aggressive I do appreciate the work you’ve been doing on the Community Council along with you responding here, but I think you’re better off giving effort and focus to the issues that actually should be dealt with.