I have never been so let down. The new post on balance changes was just one disappointment after the next… after all this time waiting. At least now I can stop hoping and look elsewhere for DF classes to play.
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Unless you dislike the direction they have specified I’d wait for full notes.
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The post was specifying their new direction for the spec. Obviously I dislike it. The biggest offender (of many) is turning Starfall into a knockoff Rain of Fire.
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I’m kind of at a loss for words with how underwhelming that update is.
Obviously there’s more to come, but that just looks like they have no idea what to do with balance.
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The key point was:
Our goal with posting some of our larger and more systemic changes is to gather initial feedback and take that into account when continuing to implement our remaining changes. We appreciate the feedback thus far and look forward to hearing more of your thoughts regarding Balance Druid in the coming weeks.
I wish I could give feedback on that forum, but can’t right now. The biggest thing for me is Starfall.
I liked the “centered on us” version, but the drawback of the design was they wouldn’t allow us to stack it. The “reticle” version allowed stacking but had it’s own drawbacks. I’m not sure why it has to be an either or situation.
Give us a node choice. Initial cast is centered on us. If still active, subsequent casts are reticle placement.
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I am glad that eclipse isnt alternating anymore. But im upset they are making starfall ground targetted again. Starfall being a moving aoe around the druid is what has always made it unique.
Still hoping we get some exciting stuff like wild mushrooms back or old shooting stars procs.
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Another thing that feels odd is how the new mastery works.
My aoe dot is nature dmg, but my aoe builder is arcane dmg and my single target dot is arcane dmg but my single target builder is nature dmg.
So to get full value during aoe you’ll have to spend a lot of globals on moonfire before spamming what will now be a very slow cast starfire since eclipse no longer reduces cast times…
This just feels so awkward.
They should’ve kept the reduce cast time during an eclipse state unless their plan involves reducing the slog cast time Starfire has.
Maybe Moonfire will get the Sunfire treatment and hits nearby enemies? Trying to Moonfire every Murloc in Gambit in order to get full usage out of the Mastery doesn’t sound like fun lol.
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Its a death sentence to Moonkin in pvp. Compared to everything all the other specs are getting, druid is dead in the water. We won’t be able to kite melee with all their ranged stuns\silences\interrupts\mobility they are getting in DF, We will get out toolkitted by ranges new utility from talent trees. Its put balance in a really bad position the dragonflight changes are just awful. Overall druid is just underwhelming and it will be a hard pass for dragonflight, just continue playing classic.
In pvp if they dispel moonfire\sunfire (no protection on these dots, so its a easy dispel) your empowerment is gone. We need more mobility and we need some really good dispel protection if they are going to go this direction.
The talent trees and these changes is basically cutting the head off the chicken at this point.
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I mean…have they ever, though?
Changes are super disappointing. Still nothing new, just a reversion on starfall. None of this will change gameplay interaction. Just boring.
Yeah this makes things much worse for pvp. And it still isn’t fluid by any means.
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I’m not so sure…
Guys I know you’re frustrated seeing these changes and from a pve perspective I admit I haven’t given it much thought. But hear me out here. (Pvp mindset).
This mastery and eclipse change is HUGE for starsurge damage. Currently, eclipse buffs the corresponding builder’s power/crit and reduced cast time yeah? And the mastery buffs the corresponding spell type’s power. So if you have 30% mastery and are in solar eclipse, wrath will do (assume base 20% builder damage) 50% extra damage compared to unempowered while starfire would do 30% more with 20% extra crit in lunar eclipse. Starsurge would do 30% extra damage in either one.
This upcoming model has mastery boosting both nature and arcane damage by 30% (assuming both dotted which of course they would be) and the eclipse now boosts arcane or nature spells by 15%. It stands to reason starsurge is consider both a nature and arcane spell thus in this iteration starsurge would be doing 75% more damage in an eclipse. If it’s not a nature/arcane “spell” that still puts it at 60%. Either way it’s much better than the outgoing model in terms of damage.
Now in terms of DoT’s, I don’t know if mastery and the dots and will like, work on each-other but currently your dots would be increased by 30% (still retaining aforementioned hypothetical values) in corresponding eclipses. With the upcoming changes they could potentially both be 30% stronger regardless of the eclipse and the eclipse could buff the corresponding one an additional 15%. This will bleed into stellar flare getting the same damage buff as starsurge and with it also being able to proc shooting stars coupled with the baseline increased proc rate, we could see a substantial increase in dot damage as well as AP gen in a passive, linear way.
Now not being tied into rotating eclipses for pvp is HUGE. Being forced to enter solar eclipse and thus having to cast sunfires when you have no owlkin procs is horrible, especially if you happen to be kicked or otherwise cc’s. Now you can bait a kick on a school and simply enter the other one. In pvp you don’t typically care which eclipse you enter (except for the tier bonus in S4). As long as you’re in one, you get full meaningful damage modifiers (astral damage). Again, this will be starsurge, shooting stars, and full moon procs. As well as fury of elune. Plus if you take/have solstice it’ll only make rotating that much easier. This restriction being removed is only a benefit from a pvp standpoint.
(I know this is lengthy, sorry. I’m rushing heavily I promise). Now I don’t know what CA will be and admittedly I haven’t looked at the talent trees for dragon flight so I don’t know what all is changing. If CA/Incarn still just enters both eclipses and gives haste then it will be an additional 15% dmg on astral which is nice.
I understand not wanting to moonfire everything in pve for aoe scenarios but twin moons should help with that yeah? Maybe they’ll change something.
I also don’t know what you mean when you say
Unless DF nerfed us, we are one of the most mobile specs in the game. Kiting melee is cake. I’m not sure I buy into the fact that we’re just dead. We also, as much as I would LOVE dispel protection, don’t really deserve it. We reapply it instantly with no cd. It’s not like a lock with cast times or ele with cast times and a cd. We simply press the button again.
I don’t know maybe there’s something in DF I missed but I’m all about these changes in particular. I see nothing but positives. Of course I don’t care about starfall much. Both versions are cool in their own way but in pve at least you can stack damage on smaller groups.
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Have you seen melee toolkit in dragonflight? Go look at dks\warriors\demon hunter\monks talents. You will not be able to kite a melee with our current toolkit in dragonflight compared to them. Just because we have cheater form doesnt mean much when they have infinite up time just like melee do right now.
Also if empower is behind dots and our dots are dispellable and has no protection then that is not a good thing. You have to go through so many GCDS and casts in order to get empower its not going to be great.
The only reason balance druid is good right now in pvp is because you can save up 6+ instant cast star surges. Nothing else, we dont have any crazy utility, survivability or anything else compared to other casters other than guaranteed instant cast star surges for stun goes.
When balance druids go into bear form or run away they cant do damage unlike nearly every other spec with there defensives\mobility. Also cheater isnt that great anymore compared to all the uptime melee have now days.
No I haven’t looked but if you think they have infinite uptime on you now then I know going to have to disagree. I have no issues putting distance on melee. Obviously there’s some cases like a necro fury during banner that are troublesome but overall we kite very well.
Again… I don’t think so. My games have me maintaining 98% uptime on my dots. This is a non issue if you’re vigilant about it, I assure you.
Cyclone is like the most powerful cc in the game. Our ability to dictate pacing is equal to none. I agree our survivability is definitely lacking as the expansion goes on with constant frenzy nerfs and the abundance of MS and spells like mindgames but we do have inert tankiness, phenomenal cc, strong healing when not under MS and wonderful kiting potential. It’s more of a proactive defensive kit and not so cd based.
You’re right, we can’t be offensive and defensive while in bear but we shouldn’t be in bear often. We should be closing as often as possible to peel for ourselves and relocating if necessary. If you spend more than a few seconds in bear you’re usually not playing properly.
Okay ill give you an example of what other classes are getting:
Frost mage gets more shields, 2 blinks when using alter time (50 second cd on alter now), teleport back after blink, dragonsbreath, AOE stun, silence on counter spell, New Blastwave that has a ele shaman knock back, Ice nova + normal nova plus everything else frost already has.
Demon hunter gets more mobility, range silence and more CC.
warrior gets storm bolt, can get double time and Spear of bastion or shockwave.
I mean what does balance druid get in comparison to all the stuff every other class gets. Nothing even comparable.
You can play it right now on the ptr if you want to test it out the new talent trees (even though you wont have as much as you will in dragon flight. Balance druid got shafted which is why they are still reworking talents. Oh we did get treants back but its not like MOP its just a tank taunt spawn.
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Different classes are different. They have shield. We have massive passive armor and built in zero cd battle masters with heals. Their aoe stun requires being locked into position for 3s to activate. What silence? They get imp cs? For all specs? I didn’t see it. Not sure what this has to do with our kiting.
Pretty generic anecdote man.
Ok lol
Our tree isn’t done yet man. But I’ll look at the moment and tell you if I see anything that stands out. I mean you say we got shafted which is why they’re re-working it but they’re re working literally everyone. Lol
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Ofcourse different classes are different but when people say balance druid in dragonflight is underwhelming they are being relative so ofcourse balance druid will be compared with what other classes get. You cant compare classes 1 to 1 but you say certain specs did not get that much of a upgrade relative to others which is what normally happens during reworks.
That is correct our tree is still being worked on so i am not sure why you are arguing with me about how its poorly done and what it needs. Anyway have fun
I’m not arguing with you per say. Or if I am, it’s because you made blanket statements like we wouldn’t be able to kite melee plans that it’s a dead spec currently. Yet you’ve given me no reason boomy won’t be able to kite. You’re also comparing specs which has multiple iterations with balance which has only gotten one so far. I’m taking a quick look now and I’ll post all things that boomy gets so far besides the changes to mastery and stuff.
Barkskin now increases all healing received by 20%. This is massive. It also has an absorb component now.
The ability to take renewal and wild charge. Also huge.
Various healing buffs but it’s subject to change on the reworks.
Those are the notable druid base tree changes I see.
Now for balance.
These are old. I expect many changes but goldrinn, orbit breaker, swarm and circle, pulsar, trees and WoE all able to be taken in the same build.
I don’t know man, we are getting a lot. I don’t see any crazy new kiting tools (except the ability to also take vortex if wanted) but we didn’t really need any. Kinda sad to see to tireless pursuit go but 
I don’t know man I think we’ll be fine.
The changes sound better, we just dont know yet. I think it will be a positive change.
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