Never say never. If Derek Proudmoore can be rezzed after being burned to ash and falling into the ocean twenty years ago, Arthas can come back.
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Like, even his bad influences are being parental what with, “I’m doing this for your own good, this is what’s best” and whatever Zovaal is on about.
Honestly, I’m just glad they decided to double-kill Garrosh and Arthas. I was tired of hearing people ask for them to come back. But they’re not even ghosts now.
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Writing the story around Faceless Generic Champion would not be an improvement.
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Writing the story around a half eaten donut named Harold who has dreams of being the world’s foremost cobbler would be a marked improvement at this point.
I usually use Khadgar as a good example of how to introduce a prominent, powerful character without supplanting the player as the protagonist.
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I like how Varian and Uther appear to help him break free. I like how several people who Arthas had the biggest impact on are there in his final moment.
But…
Why did Saurfang and Varian only show up now to help Anduin after all this time? And why was Saurfang there rather than, say Tiffin?
Why did the gorget (collar-like part) of Anduin’s armor break when he’s freed from the Jailer’s influence? When was that gorget ever part of the Jailer’s domination magic?
Sylvanas threatens to turn Anduin with his reforged sword, and every time he used the Jailer’s power it went through the sword - what was the gorget’s point? Also how did the sword go back to normal after being reshaped on a physical forge?
As for Arthas, while I’m fine with his story ending in Shadowlands, all I can say is… This is the way Arthas ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Victims dont deserve to have justice.
Unless your name is Sylvanas, lol.
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Sylvanas got closure over a decade after she was left out of the fall of her abuser and she committed suicide after the fact.
Would you like the Night Elves to not be involved in her judgment at all and then get your justice in ten years?
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I feel like this is Blizzard’s not so subtle way of distancing itself from the Arthas story. And I like that. I was never a fan of Arthas, even as a villain. I am glad to see him go out like that.
Especially when the former Devs compared the position of the Lich King to the Cosby Suite. Saying: “there must always be a Cosby suite.”
Having Sylvanas tell him off was good. She was the best choice to point out what Arthas had become.
Jaina has a habit of “shuffling awkwardly” at strange moments in these cinematics.
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Yeah, because Arthas was still alive and not in the Maw when she did that.
Justice can happen without getting closure. Closure takes time and is subjective.
Again I liked the cinematic. It made me tear up when Saurfang and Varian showed up to save Anduin. Yes, as much I dislike some aspects of Saurfangs and Varians characters, they aren’t completely terrible characters. And Varian did improve from Cata on as a character.
I’m personally really happy we can finally put the Arthas deserves redemption arguement to bed permanently. He got exactly what he deserved. 
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Have you not been paying attention to the lawsuit drama with ActiBlizzard? Blaming the victim is the Blizzard way.
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To be fair, Anduin did sort of bond with Saurfang in BfA. And he was really young when Tiffin died; it’s debatable how much he remembers her.
That said, I’m sure the real reason was to avoid complaints of a “robot cat effect” for Horde players.
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A lot of those kind of things can just be explained by time constrains on the artists.
They already have a fully rigged and rendered Saurfang model ready to animate that is on par with all the others you see in the cinematic. To introduce Anduins mother would have taken far more time and resources that they can’t spend.
I agree it would of been nice to have Anduin see his mother after so long, but I think this was more of a show of strength for Anduin rather than tenderness, and I think it would of felt weird to see his mother there help him rip apart the sword lul
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It felt strange to see Saurfang there …
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It would be weirder to see ANYONE but Saurfang and Varian in that situation though.
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I was joking about the cinematic needing to be about Anduin and Daddy figures while completely disregarding all things Arthas about the cinematic.
I wrote a meta-analysis pre-shadowlands about this and it’s finally coming to fruition I thought i would share it here since i know a lot of people are not aware of my lore blog. I thought it may provide insight into why this cinematic happened this way and why I’m satisfied with this outcome. i wrote this well over a year a ago and it’s aged really well (not all of my Shadowlands predictions came to fruition but I’m proud this has. I know Sylvanas and I know what she deserves.
Steve Danuser at last years Blizzcon when asked in the Shadowlands Q&A if Arthas would be making a return in Shadowlands and all his reply was, with regards to Arthas the concern was how could they bring him back how could they do it right… now I think a lot of people took that and misconstrued it as doing right by Arthas assuming Arthas would get a redemption. Many were happy to leave Arthas’s story as it was because it seemed like he got a type of redemption at the end of WoLK… why bother bringing him back at all… then there is the fact that Arthas simply cannot be redeemed after what he did to Sylvanas. It’s hard to be a Sylvanas fan and take the knowledge that Arthas is potentially coming back and how that might result in him getting a redemption at her expense. as a Sylvanas fan myself I am very aware of the discourse that this topic has brought up and the toxicity that has arisen from the fan base especially when it comes to rape culture and rape apologists. I’m not going to beat around the bush what Arthas did to Sylvanas is rape, and he doesn’t deserve a redemption simply for this reason alone. I’ve tried to be objective about it. I’ve watched hirumardx’s lore video entitled “Arthas did Nothing Wrong” to try and and get an unbiased account of Arthas and what it accomplished is cement me in the opposite camp. Arthas did do wrong and that’s why he is such a timeless villain, his impact on Azeroth will be felt for generations.
To be fair to Blizzard they never wrote him as a misunderstood nice guy, they wrote him as a villain. To do him justice would be to acknowledge that he is in fact a villain who made a choice to be evil… and he does make that choice.. he kills hope and I will explain this further in a little bit.
It’s hard to talk about the “return” of Arthas with acknowledging that he’s never left the narrative. He was seen in Catacysm in Sylvanas’s story Edge of Night. He was present in spirit form in the DK frost artifact weapon quest in Legion, and he was tormented vision of Jaina’s past in BFA as part of the Thros quest chain. Arthas’s legacy is ever present in the narrative.
We especially see parallels to Arthas in Sylvanas’s BFA, they deliberately framed shots that mirrored WoLK and to Culling of Stratholme with Sylvanas seemingly going down the same dark path…There are some recurring themes as always in Blizzards narrative choices. This is one of them. It really gives some insight into the future of Sylvanas’s narrative. She is being paralleled to Arthas for a good reason. We are at a point in the narrative where we are questioning if Sylvanas really is a villain, it’s deliberate.
It certainly seems like Sylvanas is on the path to become a villian, she wants to destroy hope, was destroying Teldrassil enough though? after Arthas culled Stratholme he was still redeemable wasn’t he? sure the murder of innocents was a necessary evil, was this Arthas’s breaking point? no it wasn’t and neither is it hers. She could still make a choice to change.
Alexstraza has a speech in another one of Christie Golden’s novels, War Crimes where she defines when someone has reached the point of being irredeemable. At the time when I first read it I was so mad at Garrosh for destroying Theramore that I didn’t understand why she would forgive Garrosh, or why she believed even Garrosh deserved redemption. “Few beings are truly evil, and even they are not necessarily beyond redemption. Change is inherent in all life. As long as something lives it, it can grow, it can seek the light or the darkness, It is only when it chooses darkness so completely that life itself is endangered, that I would say there is no hope.” pg 236 War Crimes. It wasn’t until I applied this same quote to Sylvanas that I understood.
Arthas Rise of the Lich King opens with Arthas’s recurring nightmare where he is seated at a table of honor beside Ner’zul and his child self. This is metaphorically ‘the Master’s table’ in Il’gynoth’s whispers.
“The boy King serves at the Master’s table. Three lies will he offer you.”
There is a small reference to Ovid’s metamorphosis here relating to Greek mythology and that is “Death is the twin brother of Sleep” and that only becomes vaguely evident through the powers of the self proclaimed Old God of Death, Yogg-Saron because Yogg is also responsible for the Emerald Nightmare. You are going to have to suspend belief that someone at Blizzard has read Ovid. Sylvanas may have been free of the helm but both are still heavily manipulated by Yogg-Saron and the Emerald Nightmare that’s all you need to know for context of this post.Yogg-Saron is also called “Hope’s End” if that isn’t foreshadowing in itself I don’t know what else is. Arthas’s Nightmares and Calia’s Nightmares are a manifestation of Old God corruption.
The answers are in the prologue and epilogue of Arthas, Rise of the Lich King.It’s pretty lengthy I will try to cut out as much irrelevant passages as I can to get to the point of it but the prologue is as follows;
“None of it was real, of course. The man who sat at the place of honor at the table, slightly elevated before the other two in a mammoth carved chair that was not quite a throne, understood this. He was dreaming; he had been dreaming for a long, long time. […]
The orc, on his left, was elderly, but still powerful. […] torchlight flickered off the ghostly image he bore on his heavily jawed face— that of s skull, painted on he had been a shaman, able to direct and wield vast powers,even now as a figment of the mans imagination, he was intimidating.
The boy was not. Once, he might have a handsome child, with wide sea-green eyes, fair features and golden hair. but once was not now.
The boy was sick.
He was thin, so emaciated that his bones seem to threaten to slice through his skin.The once-bright eyes were dimmed and sunken, a thin film covering them. […] Breathing seemed to be difficult the child’s breath hitched in little panting gasps. The man thought he could almost see the labored thumping of his heart that should have faltered long ago. But it persisted to beat.
“He is still here.” the orc said, stabbing a finger in the boy’s direction.
“He will not last,” the man said
As if to confirm the words, the boy began to cough. Blood and mucus splattered the table in front of him. and he wiped a thin arm clad in rotting finery across his pale mouth . He drew breath to speak in a halting voice the effort taxing him.
“you have not –yet won him. And I will prove it to you.”
“you are as foolish as you are stubborn, that battle was won long ago.”
The boy is the last vestige of Arthas’s humanity and its sickly, it should never have existed in the first place. It doesn’t serve him. Someone needs to put it out of its misery and kill it already. The boy represents innocence and goodness and hope.Its very clear there are two sides to Arthas, there is only the man and the boy. Ner’zul is the devil on his shoulder telling him to kill the boy but there is also another force there is the dream and death corrupting the boy. Arthas’s Nightmares are symbolic, the boy is fighting a losing battle for Arthas to embrace his humanity. All of this is taking place while Arthas is asleep trapped in the Frozen throne prior to when he re-awakens in Wrath of the Lich King. The epilogue revisits this dream with the same orc, Ner’zul and the same boy representing Arthas’s innocence. Here’s the Eepilogue featuring Arthas’s choice,
But the dream was not over, it would seem.He again sat at the head of the long beautifully carved table that took up most of this illusionary hall. And the two who had the most interest in his dream were still there watching him.
The orc on his left, elderly but still powerful, searched his face then began to smile. And on his right the boy - emaciated and sickly. looked even worse than Arthas remembered him. […]
Ner’zul presents Arthas visions of the past and the future, promises that he needs to “stay on the path” to see all of these visions come to fruition. It’s a lot of information and I’ll be unpacking these visions in a different post. It’s important to note that some of these visions are potential Shadowlands spoilers.
Arthas blinked and shook his head. The visions, tumbled, chaotic, heartening, and disturbing were gone.
The orc chuckled […] He once had the gift of true visioning. Arthas did not doubt all that he had seen, although he perfectly understood, would indeed come to pass.
“So much more but only if you continue to walk this path fully.”
Slowly the death knight turned his head to the boy.[…] Arthas felt something inside him stir. Despite everything –the boy would not die.
[…] “You… are the little flame that burns inside me still, that resists the ice. You are the last vestiges of humanity -of compassion, of my ability to love, to grieve …. to care.”
“You understand, now. Despite all, Arthas you have not abandoned me.” tears of hope stood in those eyes and in his voice. “There must be a reason… much harm have you done, but there is goodness in you yet… if there was none i would not exist, not even in your dreams.”
[…] the boy extended his arms as if he were a living breathing child, asking to be picked up and be held by a loving father. “It doesn’t have to be too late.” He said quietly.
“No” Arthas said staring raptly at the boy, “it doesn’t.”
He touched the curve of the boy’s cheek slipped a hand beneath his chin, he smiled into his own eyes.
“But it is.”
Frostmourne descended. The boy cried out, his shocked, betrayed anguished cry– For a moment Arthas saw him standing there, the blade buried in his chest almost as big as he was. he felt one final tremor of remorse as he met his own eyes.
Then the boy was gone.
This was the exact moment that Arthas made a choice to kill the last remaining parts of himself that were good, that could have been redeemed. He made that choice himself.
Arthas, the man, does not deserve redemption. But the young boy, the spirit of Arthas’s innocence, can still be saved from the Maw.
This is where character growth and redemption can be found for Sylvanas. He can’t be redeemed but she can. She may be on the same path but she hasn’t killed her own fleeting hope so there is still a chance for her in the end to get the redemption Arthas doesn’t deserve.
Its only right that Sylvanas is currently on the precipice of falling into becoming a villian. Everything Ner’zul predicted has come true. Even though Arthas stopped being a vessel of the Lich King’s power when he was defeated, she became a vessel for his power instead and she’s rekindled his war on hope. Sylvanas will be faced with the same choice to kill hope, to kill that part of herself trapped in the Maw. I can only hope she will be stronger than that and refuse. She’s already stronger than Arthas and this isn’t about his redemption he already damned himself by killing his own hope. This is about her redemption. Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands was foretold in Arthas Rise of the Lich King, its only in hindsight you see it.
With so many parallels there’s almost a double standard here to be exploited… those who feel that Arthas should have been redeemed would be able to see the parallels in Sylvanas, if they believe Arthas deserves redemption but Sylvanas doesn’t it forces them to acknowledge sexism as a reason for the double standard.
The way in which Arthas kills the boy, is similar to the manner in which Athas killed Sylvanas. In both cases they represented something that stood in his way to get what he wanted. It’s fitting the quest where you re-live Sylvanas’s death at the hands of Arthas is titled “The Day Hope Died.” Sylvanas may believed that her hope died the day Arthas killed her, but what makes her a redeemable character is, that despite everything,she still has humanity, she still feels love, she feels remorse, she feels compassion… she hasn’t lost hope. (yet) and these things can still change her and bring her back from the darkness.
But most importantly I think it’s important to redeem Sylvanas to give her justice without having to give her vengeance. If she’s forced to internalize that she’s on a path that is no different to Arthas’s path she may choose to be stronger than him and not give in to killing her own humanity. Her humanity is the thing that sets her apart from being the monster HE created her to be. His affect on her life continues to be a cycle of abuse she just can’t break. Sylvanas is an introspective character, she will be tormented by these parallels. All it takes is for someone to hold up that mirror.
How can Blizzard bring Arthas back and still do justice for his character as well as hers? He needs to be irredeemable so that she can have redemption. He’s already made his choice, he already crossed the threshold, but there is still hope for her, and in her own quest for redemption. Maybe she can save his innocent spirit trapped in the Maw.
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It’s absolutely ridiculous that Bolvar wasn’t involved in any way in Anduin’s “arc” given he was practically the kid’s second dad. Why is he even in Shadowlands? He’s barely done more this entire expansion than Baine has.
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Anduin’s story lately just screams of more daddy issues than a struggling sorority girl. A total lack of female role models in his life.
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