I know in mop they were strong because of Veng but with the changes form WoD they should nerf it down where tanks are below same Gs dps. As 80% of an normal dps. If not they will be better than dps to do damage.
Your idea is not a bad one but for me it is still unneeded if it’s just a perception issue moreover as current tank design in cata and in mop has made it so more players were willing to tank and that encounters are designed around tanks doing this amount of damage to a certain point.
I recall playing original MoP, where tanks were standing in every mechanic and doing more DPS than almost all of the DPS combined.
Vengeance is a truly awful mechanic and should have been capped from the start.
Working as intended.
Yea some tanks were not wearing some pieces of armor to do more damage, even in mythic raid fights. I know i was an Blood dk that was normally was in the top 5+ of damage some fights. That was fine back than because not a lot was doing it, Now days we already having tanks doing it in Cata duns. It need nerf/capped before mop.
Vengeance is based on unmitigated damage. If you mean that tanks were wearing DPS pieces, that’s nothing new. People were wearing DPS pieces for more threat even back in vanilla.
The Cata version of Vengeance is based on mitigated damage taken, but the stats on your gear (especially a DPS piece) assuredly outweighs the marginal gain from Vengeance. Also, in Cataclysm, the tanks’ DPS doesn’t even come close to beating out DPS except in mass AoE pulls in Celestial dungeons.
Mythic wasn’t in the game until the pre-patch of WoD, which is the same patch that removed Vengeance.
What benefit is there in nerfing vengeance for the less than 2 weeks of Cataclysm we have left?
Also, in case you didn’t know, Vengeance is capped already in Cataclysm, and it will be capped in MoP, meaning it will be capped in the pre-patch. The main difference in Classic is that it will build up faster (1.8x instead of 1.5x, and even from avoidance). It’s agreeable that it should’ve been capped from the start… but it will be this time around.
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Yes unmitigated damage meaning any damage you take was making you even more powerful. So People was taking off armor to do more damage. I was doing it and top tanks was.
Wrong mythic came with SoO 5.4 and veng was removed at 6.0.2.
The whole problem around Veng is its made players (tanks) too powerful for the game as an whole. Dps players was NOT happy when an way undergear tank was doing the same dps as them. In the later patches players where geared enough to take hits and live so if they take off armor or stand in bad they can do even more damage. Tanks was sitting down with thier back turned to get critical hit by mobs to get more. Players was doing stuff that was just for more damage. They did not say anything about capping it again.
“Vengeance in World of Warcraft used to be capped, but that cap has been removed. Initially, Vengeance, which increases a tank’s damage based on damage taken, had a maximum value based on a combination of stamina and base health. However, in a later patch, the cap was removed, and Vengeance now scales based on the damage taken over the previous 20 seconds. This change allows for higher damage output from tanks, especially in longer fights.”
That was in Mop and removed in later patches. Now its even more stronger. This is why it need nerf.
No, you are wrong. Siege of orgrimmar introduced Flex, which was a difficulty easier than normal. In 5.4 we had 4 difficulties, LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic. In the prepatch the name of flex was removed, as the new normal and heroic both were given flex scaling, and heroic of 5.4 was renamed to mythic. So in 6.0 it was LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic. Mythic did not exist until the prepatch where it was also a forced 20 man difficulty.
Youre still wrong.
You are still wrong. Current iteration of vengeance we are using does not work the way you think it does.
This has got to be trolling right? OP is so uneducated on this topic that they make themself look like an utter fool.
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My point still stands, Veng was still an problem until 6.0.2
Look it up, it was capped and removed
Doesnt matter what it was, right now it IS CAPPED. Standing in mechanics DOES NOT give you vengeance either. Which you seem to be under the impression it does. You literally do not know what you are talking about.
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Where did bzz said it? Not in the veng blue post they buffed it.
Yes you did any damage
Go look for it. Its well documented in class discords.
Again, not how it works.
Like youre literally trolling. Or a massive hypocrite.
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Vengeance solve some problem while it should be balanced and I think they’ve already done more balance with it in mop classic. I don’t think you can abuse it as much as back in mop with the changes they did but I’d have to double check.
The problem it solves is that tank lack scaling but still need to get threat which is a problem we’ve encountered many times and tanks had to get threat buffed nearly each patch and this still happens on retail.
Having a mechanic like this which limit the amount of tanks you can bring that will do high damage is a good way to make sure people don’t just bring so many tanks that can’t really die and stomp bosses this way as if they can do 80% of a dps in term of damage then the tuning for boss dps check need to be much higher to make sure you don’t stack tanks.
Cataclysm Vengeance is capped at 10% of your maximum HP. Taking off your gear is a DPS loss.
No, Mythic was added in patch 6.0.2.
https:// wowpedia. fandom. com/wiki/Mythic_mode
https:// i.gyazo. com/e1ff0736bf82820b1079e351aa8fabfd.png
I didn’t ask you to explain the problem with Vengeance, I asked what the benefit of nerfing it in Cataclysm is when Cataclysm ends in 2 weeks?
That got nerfed in 5.4. Being crit doesn’t give you any additional Attack Power.
It’s the same mechanic, bud. They don’t have to say anything about capping it because it’s already capped. Oh, and they already mentioned they’re using the 5.4 version as a baseline with some changes.
You’re quoting a change from the earlier patches of MoP, not the final version in 5.4 which got nerfed heavily by capping it at the tank’s maximum HP, giving it huge diminishing returns, reducing the rate at which the AP was gained, and causing misses to no longer give Attack Power.
It’s not stronger, you’re just ignorant. Or trolling.
They already are…? Tanks barely do half the damage of a dps.
In single target now. When mop comes they get better stats as mastery and they start doing higher to mid level on meters.
In aoe they are doing the same dps
The problem is if bizz did not say it as in the blue post it most likely not.
I just test it on my bdk on random campfire and i got the buff. Its ANY damage you take. So No matter what the damage is form you will get more attack power.
Nope just know how it actually works and what kind of players would do for more damage because they did it back than. Standing in bad and or taking off pieces of armor to get hit harder.
Yeah thats not persistent aoe damage which is what specifically was nerfed. You walking into a campfire is not persistent aoe damage. You again LITERALLY do not know what youre talking about. You cannot stand in the lightning pools anymore like you would on Jin’rock. Literally easy to test this stuff but you use something thats not even relevant to argue your point. Youre literally trolling. Could have queued a dungeon in beta to see if standing in fire did anything, but no had to use something as a source which is irrelevant.
No, because once again youre wrong. You do not know how it works. So easy to search this stuff up. You are literally a troll, if not by intent then certainly by merit.
You mean like the post just above what you posted that says specifically 5.4. Well gosh lets loot at a source that documents the patch notes for 5.4 vengeance.
- Characters in a tanking specialization now generates 40% more threat.
- Vengeance now grants Attack Power equal to 1.5% of the damage taken, down from 1.8% (The tooltip said 2% but it was actually 1.8%).
- Tanks no longer receive Vengeance from many persistent area damage effects (standing in the fire) or from missed attacks (dodging and parrying an attack will continue to work as it has before).
- Vengeance gains from being critically hit have been reduced by 50%.
- There are now diminishing returns on Vengeance gains while tanking multiple targets. Each additional target grants progressively less Vengeance.
- So as not to affect Challenge Mode leader boards, the above Vengeance changes will not apply there. For Challenge Modes, Vengeance will continue to work as it did in patch 5.3.
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No they won’t.
- Data doesn’t support claim.
- DPS are logged as performing substantially higher DPS than similarly skilled tanks.
- Not everyone in a raid can get veng stacks
- Only active tank can
- Git gud
- If you are doing less dps than a tank than maybe you need to read up on your abilities/mechanics of the fight, so that you can make more clever use of what’s available.
Are you talking about MoP Veng or Cata Veng? I stood in Garrosh’s Annihilates just for the vengeance. We could indeed soak mechanics for more damage.
In cata no idea, the cap doesn’t make it worthwhile enough to even try.
From the 5.4 patch notes:
- “Tanks no longer receive Vengeance from many persistent area damage effects (standing in the fire) or from missed attacks (dodging and parrying an attack will continue to work as it has before).”
Direct damage works. Damage puddles don’t.