Need more slow specs

Community General Discussion
42

There’s literally only one “spammy” (because we aren’t talking about APMs in a game like WoW) specialization in the game currently and that’s Outlaw due to Between the Eyes. But even that isn’t even remotely as bad as it has been before and has been eased up somewhat, making it nowhere near as “APM”-y as you wish to describe it.

… you do realize that APM stands for “actions per minute”, and even opting for something as simple as writing a sentence has an “APM” (or words per minute) of 70-80. If you are fast and used to writing you can do 90-100, and if you write a fair bit in a language you are fluent in you can get up to 110-120 WPM or “APM.”

50-65 APM is the same thing as taking a full minute to write this sentence!

I would expect that from someone who isn’t fluent in a language and isn’t trying to learn it either. This is WORLDS apart from being “high intensive” in any sense. To finish school you are expected to be fluent in at least your own native language making the norm that you can handle about 70-80 WPMs (or as you are using it, APM) when writing.

(Do note that Wikipedia is saying that for an adult about 68 is the average WPM but I have heard differently when I was looking into how many words per minute I can do, so I’m opting for the average that I have heard, regardless though 68 would be just outside of 70-80 so it is still usable if you want to opt for a Wikipedia entry.)

50-65 APM is EXCEEDINGLY low for what an average person can handle in their day to day life. Do note that it doesn’t translate 1-to-1 into “real life” since actions-per-minute is a computer term but still, if one were to “computerize” what a lot of what we do day to day, to find 50-65 as a high APM is honestly concerning.

43

No.

Active gameplay is what makes this gameplay fun, slower APM gameplay is over in another version of this game…

44

Yes but the difference is when you’re typing you are focused on typing, right? Typing this sentence out right now has my main concentration. It is the activity I am doing.

That isn’t true for WoW gameplay. Your rotation is just one factor. You’re also managing positional mechanics, debuffs, buffs, CDs, encounter mechanics, etc.

You’re also not factoring the most obvious thing. A spec with a rotation of 60 APM doesn’t mean you’re doing 60 APMs… it isn’t accounting for additional actions, such as movement with WASD or mouse strokes and clicks,.

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45

I can definitely understand the appeal of wanting a slower class. Sometimes it’s more enjoyable to have a meaningful cast than ‘spam ability ville’.

However I don’t see the game going back to that. As time progresses, generally the game has headed towards ‘more’ reactivity.

2 Likes
46

If I wanted to play a game with slow mechanics, I would play Darkest Dungeon. The reason is because if you rush the very second in that game…

… the game will drag you by the ear into a spiked-ridden bed and then proceed to name EVERY SINGLE POLICY of Walmart and what it does while biting your fingers off slowly.

Sorry. That game shows no mercy. But I love the pain.

47

Actually the real problem with slower specs is that the game is designed around high mobility and fast DPS, meaning it’s actually easier to make mistakes as a slow caster because you have to determine whether or not you actually have time to sneak in that last spell before you get yourself or other people killed.

For example, me, when I wiped our raid on Heroic Mugzhee because I had to get that Tyrant cast off else I’d lose a tonne of dps, but ended up being too slow to get into my assigned Gaol.

3 Likes
48

You and a few others seem to misunderstand this post.

I’m not asking that they change every single spec into slower versions of themselves, I’m asking specs that are ALREADY SLOW remain so as there are plenty of options out there for people who are interested in whack a mole high speed gameplay.

The recent MM rework did it well for their M+ build, APM in higher key sits around 40-45. This spec has always been on the lower side of APM too, it got a dev that understood that.

1 Like
49

That’s not what you said though… you said:

So, if anything you are either changing the goal-post or misspoke originally.

Either way, we only have a few specs that are “lower APM” and if you are looking for lower APM stick with them… I know the struggle with the hands, I found the casters in this game to be less “spammy” but still very active.

50

You sure you’re capable of reading what you’re quoting?

Dev was a slower spec, around the same APM as Resto Shaman. Now it isn’t. I didnt misspeak, I want a spec I love to be the way that it was for 2 years, not slowly morphed into another spammy instant cast caster.

And not changing current fast paced specs, when they decide a new class, they make NEW specs that are on the slower side.

1 Like
51

Lol, so a troll or just too stubborn to accept being wrong. Good luck going forward bud.

52

I’m the troll, lol alright.

Pointing out that a spec is being morphed into another instant cast “caster” is trolling.

53

You have specifically asked and stated t hat we need more slow specs.

This does not mean you want the status quo to remain the same.

It means whatever amount of slow specs we have now, we need additional.

54

Right, but people seem to misinterpret that with “REWORK CURRENT SPECS INTO SLOW SPECS” when it isn’t.

Slower specs are slowly getting faster while the same is happening to the current fast specs. I’d just like the slow to remain slow, that’s all.

And why not introduce some new slower options if a new class comes along?

55

I am just gonna chalk it up to misspoke, too late in the night.

Have a good one.

56

Misspoke where? I feel I’ve been pretty consistent with “keep slow specs slow, maybe introduce a new slow option” through this whole thread.

Not my fault if people misinterpret what I’m saying, yet they get pissy about it.

57

My only reply to this is “variety is the spice of life@. Because it’s true. This game has room for adderall button smasher specs and easy as she goes specs.

58

I have never ever in my entire life written like that. When writing you focus on how you are writing, what you are writing, in essence you are planning what you are writing, and if you are trying to write something coherent you are thinking about the specific words that you are using, and a whole load of other minor things that goes into it that we don’t think about when we write.

The only type of writing where I’m fully concentrated on what I’m writing is when I’m copying something, because that requires no coherent thoughts as to what I’m doing. Just pure muscle memory, keyboard/pencil familiarity, and taking note of what it is that one is writing next.

Yes, and all of that should be included into what you consider as your APM when doing a rotation. Otherwise we have to go to far higher amounts and say that you should be at a minimum around 80-90 at least.

This is why APM is such a bad way to gauge that but even if one want to use it as a way to measure it, the argument in of itself gets way worse. Because 50-65 as the OP stated is beyond bonkers too low even if one were to include the stuff that should be second nature to such a degree it doesn’t concern you. That’s part of doing an activity, to learn what is the basic stuff so it becomes a negligible baseline. We don’t need to relearn “Don’t stand in the fire” every time we encounter a damaging mechanic, what we learn is how to deal with it. Which is where the coherent and cognitive portion of your decision making (see what I talked about when writing something) comes into play.

This is why this isn’t a functional argument. That’s why the OP is trolling at best and just using APM because it is part of the “esports language” that people on these forums throw around as some kind of buzzword akin to a slur.

Control of your character doesn’t increase the required actions per minute substantially, nor should those actions matter in the slightest as that’s the most barebone baseline requirement of gaming literacy to play the game. The only argument one can make that’s related to this is “when progressing on a new boss/dungeon/activity, I get surprised and lose myself and where I am in my rotation so my performance suffers.”

Which again, that’s part of the gameplay. To see and do new things. Which requires getting used to them. None of which increases your “APM” but instead requires you to take on a conscious cognitive role to learn what’s happening in your environment.

All of this is just a really, REALLY bad argument, and I stand by that if the OP in all seriousness genuinely believe 50-65 APM (or WPM) is a lot … that’s concerning.

59

?

Maybe I’m just not understanding what you are saying but APM has nothing to do with what the other guy said, it’s only calculated based on the actions you use on your action bars. Outlaw alone can easily hit over 100 APM without ever factoring in anything else that was mentioned.

60

That’s just a thinly veiled offense, basically comparing people who like faster gameplay to people who have attention problems.

While in reality it’s probably the opposite as you have to think about more things, the faster rate of key presses forces you to think and react to more things than a slower one, so unless the slow spec has harder mechanics that require more attention on a singular basis, the faster spec will require more concentration to pull off. So it’s not just a bad argument from a logical standpoint because it’s essentially an ad hominem, but it’s also objectively wrong most of the time. The only spec that i can think of that tends to be harder to pull off despite being slower is assassination rogue due to certain mechanics, especially in aoe.

Im not above hitting back when people do this kind of stuff so im gonna say this:

Just because you like slow gameplay doesn’t mean you are more “methodical and sophisticated” It just means that you’re slower, and likely have arthritis.

By the way, you’re the one making the claim that more specs should be slower, i didn’t really say anything about making specs faster, i think most are fine, i don’t mind devastation as it is, the main issue with devastation is that it lacks some interactions more than the apm. It’s just a decent spec, not great, not awful. But what i am certain of is that making is slower won’t make it more fun. So before you say that the whole argument was about new specs, it wasn’t, you’re totally willing to change already existing specs because you quite literally admitted it in your first post.

I just don’t really want more slow specs because i tend to prefer faster ones. But if they add a new spec that’s slower i don’t really dislike that too much, i only dislike it when people try to change the ones i like because “it’s too fast, or too complex” or whatever other bs reason.

61

So what’s the problem here then? Pres and Dev Evoker were both far slower in Dragonflight which is what I liked about them, but it’s alright that they were made faster and I’m a donkey for wishing they’d go back to a slower playstyle?

I don’t want them to change specs that have had a fast paced playstyle cemented for years. I want them to stop changing the slower specs and stuffing haste procs or a dozen instant casts into their talents, where you typically have no choice but to take them to move down further in the tree.

My claim is that I wish for slow specs to remain slow, and if they’re intending on adding more classes to the game, add a couple of slow specs to add to the already small and dwindling list.

Take it whatever way you want, it wasn’t intended as an insult.

Not really no. You’d say Ret Pally, BM Hunter, Unholy DK are harder because they’re faster? What about concentration applies to mashing the same 2-3 buttons for a “rotation”? The specs that require more “concentration” to pull off are typically at the middle of the pack APM wise, with Outlaw being an outlier. Any higher and you’re typically mashing the same 1 or 2 buttons for 70% of the rotation.