You mean you’re not taking Initiative and KYE on your AMN/Ragefire build? 
Initiative and KYE are the next to get balanced. Doubtful that we’re going to have a 15% damage buff on a 20 second timer. That’s more powerful now than Momentum. Especially since it can also be worked around so that the buff comes up more often if adds spawn.
Hell, given the power of Initiative relative to Momentum, those two should swap spots now.
You mean move momentum further up the tree? 
I am actually really excited about initiative. Whenever I played Korayn I always feel like DH is the most suited to the First Strike buff because we have so much upfront damage, the bonus crit feels invaluable. KYE feels vital for DH as well because of how much value crit has lost whenever eyebeam has been a significant enough part of our damage. Feels like it should be baseline in the same way it is for ele shaman (or was? I haven’t played ele in a long time!)
It really goes to show how under-developed these trees are though. Things like crit damage and bonus crit chance on a really basic modifier all feel like such huge bonuses because there isn’t more done through the tree. AMN to me is a far bigger discrepancy than Momentum because that’s a talent drastically modifying the value of a stat. Not incidentally, but by design. I’ve never seen anything like it in the game! But then it’s implemented alongside talents like Ragefire, KYE and Initiative that are more incidental in how they raise the value of crit. And then buried in beneath all that are Momentum and the Momentum-like talents. It all feels like it’s missing direction and so a lot of degenerate design that does too much to modify the base profile has crept in. Probably too late to expect any significant change though so this is going to be another xpac where havoc is either broken or scaled down to irrelevance.
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No, you said that like that is an obvious choice and it’s not haha you can easily go haste/mast instead of crit/mast with this build and it’ll likely do more AoE DPS. You’re relying on ragefire and like many players should know Ragefire will not have time to go off. on most pulls you’re canceling it early. Haste over crit relies a lot less on ragefire going off instead for consistency
So… the point is to gear haste so you don’t have to cancel IA early? But why not just cancel IA early anyway the macro wouldn’t even be a GCD?
What is it specifically that scales with haste in this build the way crit will scale with KYE, Critical Chaos and Ragefire?
I’d love to know cos personally I’d rather stack haste than play momentum - and I say that as the biggest momentum apologist on these forums!
Closer to the base sometimes means mandatory, but also means it would be weaker.
Two options I see that would work for Momentum as a 9 point talent:
- Swapped with Initiative the percentage bonus for Momentum should be changed to Fel Rush, The Hunt, Vengeful Retreat, and Felblade and no longer have a timer.
- Reduced to only 4%.
The second option just seems to make the talent very blah, and still not address the concern that % bonus means less damage if not taken.
So going back to the change where Fel Blade activates? Then it’s going to have a near 100% uptime. It’s a much higher uptime as it is on the beta thanks to Erratic Felheart and requires more careful play i.e. no Fel Rush or VR during the buff window - which I already dislike.
You said it yourself, it’s a loss if you don’t take it. That’s the nature of a maintenance buff. I didn’t touch my Rogue through all of SL cos I hate wasting a finisher on Slice and Dice and I got sick of feral long ago cos of Savage Roar. I prefer Momentum having a much lower up time because you think more carefully about when you want that bonus damage window. But by the changes in the beta it’s going to be up five secends every seven seconds. That’s going to be well over 50% uptime. That’s not trivial!
I don’t know why there can’t just be a consensus that momentum should only activate a buff for Blade Dance or Chaos Strike. That would solve so much, yet everyone wants weird awkward compromises that keep it as a maintenance buff. It makes no sense!
Initiative is not a 15% damage buff, it’s 15% crit, not even remotely the same.
KYE is bugged and stacking multiplicatively instead of additively.
A point of feedback we’re giving nowdays is to flat out removing Fel Rushing from triggering Momentum since the playstyle is already present in both Initiative and UBC (and most people enjoy those talents)
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We literally asked for this. Mastery has been useless for 2 expansions and this is a way of making it good.
AMN is a good talent.
Seems to me like this is just the design they have chosen to go with. It happens, entire specs will get their design turned on it’s head for the next expansion. If it isn’t for you just leave the class or the spec.
Me personally? Fantastic change. I’ve always felt like HDH design is just hit ting when it be off CD and button mash. Adds some much needed fresh air into the current design of HDH.
Literally nobody asked for Mastery to be modified by a talent. The stat remains junk if you don’t build for AMN. Is that really your idea of a fix?
You’re wrong because of two things:
1- Mastery is no longer a junk stat because for most builds, Chaos damage is much more prevalent than it was in the past, and as such, it is better. This includes basically anything except IA and RF, which are primarily AoE talents.
2- Even with mastery not being absolute junk anymore because of 1/, Blizzard gave us a way to buff our AoE spenders even further for just one talent point that is basically free if you’re going down the right path.
They literally gave us TWO scaling points in the form of crit and mastery through the rework, and you’re complaining about it? Do you want to go back to stacking haste and vers or what?
How is chaos damage any more prevalent now than it was before? Is that just because of covenant abilities being removed? What you’re describing sounds like anomalous scaling for one patch cycle. What are you going to do when a build sims w/o AMN and you’re back to dropping any piece with mastery on it? You really think that’s not a possibility anymore?
Sorry I didn’t write that very well. What I meant to say is something like:
Momentum:
The damage of your Fel Rush, The Hunt, Vengeful Retreat, and Felblade is increased by 10% and they generate 10 additional Fury.
Something that encourages using the movement abilities, but doesn’t require movement for no good reason.
That’s OK too, but also done a lot on other talents.
Everyone is salivating to get First Strike (Initiative) back and also have Winds of Winter (Ragefire) along with KYE.
Seriously, that might not read or be exactly a 15% boost, but it’s significant. Far too significant for where it is located.
Initiative is far more impactful than Trial of Ruin, yet they’re the same level on the talent tree.
Initiative needs to be nerfed down in percentage a lot if it’s going to be that low on the tree.
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You go haste to not play Momentum and have the same output. CD on Aura lower with haste. GCD. Aura ticks. Etc.
Yeah I think about this a lot too. Chaos Theory changing from a buff to a guaranteed singular buffed Chaos Strike seems weird. I much prefer the idea of holding a charge of Fel Rush for a Chaos Theory proc than trying to clumsily sandwich every other blade dance cast with every other momentum window.
You should have to take Tactical Retreat to get to Initiative 
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Because for instance, in Shadowlands, First Blood is physical damage, and it was a huge chunk of our damage.
Just having more abilities being buffed my Mastery automatically makes it better (since Mastery is just a better Versatility for us).
Sure, by default it won’t be your best stat, but it will most likely be a 2nd, and for sure it won’t be undesirable like it currently is.
With AMN it is becoming your best stat for AoE, most likely.
And now first blood and last dance are very easy to take, but Blade Dance and IA are going to be trivial damage in non-AMN builds? I take it we’re Eye Beam and Chaos Strike heavy now?
And how are you so confident of this before they’ve done any proper scaling? You expect these values to remain the same?
Definitely curious what data you’re looking at I’ll say that much!
If you want data you’re free to look at all these logs from testing in the Beta:
These are all using an Eye Beam build with no AMN:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Vwg9fNZpjcnGt3zJ
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P7H84rbjmv1QpVTn
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yQnTZrc1Jj439FCt
Look at our damage distribution. Except IA and Hunt, literally everything else is already Chaos damage. It’s hard to imagine that Mastery is not a better stat than it was in 9.1.5
This is a 9.1.5 log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mR4n8tCLgxc9hwDb#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=21
Most of the damage of that Death Sweep is going to be Chaos in DF.
Ragefire even if it’s turned into Chaos should be doing the same damage, btw. Otherwise it would be double dipping into Mastery and we’ve already been confirmed it won’t be doing so.
Oh so Death Sweep is chaos now? And you have 89% uptime on meta? Is this pre or post CoH nerf?
I haven’t looked at WCL for the beta so I don’t know how to look up talents. What Eyebeam talents are you taking? I see momentum, ragefire and essence break, you must be dropping something?
Also lol 90% momentum uptime