They are, in shadowlands
I’m not sure if that’s the encouragement we should be showing. We’ve had years wasted on BFA. Its finale was so bad it had to be unlisted from youtube.
I am fully in the camp that if they’re not able to do it right, they shouldn’t do it at all.
That is why I encourage that they don’t do a half-measure like now, and just come forward to say; “we’re retconning BFA’s story, this happened instead”.
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I’ll accept that too - but they have to come out and say that it is a full retcon, not just chop out or hide story sections to do with the Burning but leaving its consequences in place.
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THe main story of shadowlands is literally continuing the story of bfa, burning and all they play massive parts we already know this from the data mining, nothing is being retconed
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I didn’t either. Heading to try it now…
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With their methods introduced so far that still sounds chaotic good at best. I suppose Lordaeron was generally Lawful Good before the whole undeath thing, so we’ll see.
I think they’d be more trying not throwing the newbies straight into the lore deep end. Doesn’t really retcon anything, save for the undead being nigh-universally in favor of Teldrassil. It was after all that they call in bird culture a (Richard) move.
We could tell that from 8.2.5 and 8.3.0
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I think the funniest part of all this is that even blizzard thinks bfa is a terrible story.
that might actually be the one hope i have for blizzards story team.
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It was depressing to hear them appologize for every single mechanic and call the story a “sucess”.
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At the risk of jumping the gun based on almost no evidence, it would indicate that Blizzard has no concept of morally grey. I mean they claim they want it (and I believe them) but they can’t help but make everything black and white.
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Except I feel like they still think their story is a success.
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If it sparks this much of an emotional response out of it people then it is a success
I disagree with retconning. It loses the value of the whole story line narrative for the last 3 years. We know that it would be easier to say only a few Night Elves died. To make new players feel better and old players whitewash their history. That shouldn’t be done. It’s inconvenient, but the facts are the Horde committed the biggest modern genocide in the game’s history.
Yes the Horde wiped out most of the Draenei and created a road to glory in Hellfire with their remains, and sacked Stormwind and filled the canals with human bodies especially women and children. They nuked Theramore, and captured the survivors and made them slaves to fight for their amusement. They then killed many in capturing Southshore, Hillsbrad and Gilneas. All this was done relatively off screen and in the past.
In this past expansion the Horde players physically quest by quest committed the worst genocide up to this point wiping out an entire racial capital and specifically murdering so many elves in Ashenvale that their wisps created a barrier the likes unseen since the Third War. So many died that it’s can’t be numbered. Many in the Horde took pleasure in this and defended Sylvanas.
Now imagine, the Horde players who removed their shoulder guards in solidarity with Saurfang during these quests and went further protested and fought on these forums and in the game as a resistance to the point the Blizzard executives called for reform in the questing to allow a swing rebellion to be formed. Think Zappyboi… I don’t agree with this narrative of creating retcons for the easing of new generations of players… We should be mature and live with what’s been done. Move past it.
Let new players know what the Horde have done. Give them context. Explain their actions. Don’t justify it as ignorance, or whatever. Just say it happened. Recognize the genocide for what it was. Then ask, “Are you Sylvanas’ Horde or are you something more?” Make new players know that their faction has done evil incomparable evil and they vow like Baine to lead the Horde to a better path.
Redemption is now the path for this Horde. It’s seeking freedom and family for outcasts and those broken by a world who would hate them, but let the new player know especially if you are playing undead, “Not all of it is undeserved hate, but can be so much more!”
I know that’s a difficult story to play, but it’s worth playing nonetheless. It’s the Horde’s story and no apologist or retcons needed. The Alliance doesn’t need to be portrayed as the eternal victims of the Horde, but as those who triumphed over these crimes and choose to FORGIVE the Horde, but never FORGETTING their crimes. The path to forgiveness isn’t short or easy, but each player deserves to to choose what that path means for them all.
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You don’t know the fates of Theramore’s captured folk.
The Horde physically quests in sparing civilians and only killing combatants.
Source on all of the Whisps specifically being from Ashenvale’s conquering.
Source on them being the likes unseen since the Third War.
Source? Unless you’re specifically speaking strictly and only about Teldrassil.
Source?
This is exactly what happened.
You don’t even know what the Horde have done. 
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Uh no. In Astranaar you had the option to kill civilians and you were praised for it if you did. And canonically all civilians were killed.
I only wonder if they let those like 5 civilians they spared in Darkshore live or if they killed them too. Probably 2nd option, but couldn’t find anything about that in Elegy or 8.1.
It was when the Horde tried to get into Darkshore where the whisps formed a wall.
Yelling “For the Horde” after being on a bloody genocidal rush from the Barrens to Teldrassil which is about to burn down - and then not having any problem with Teldrassil over the whole expansion until Sylvanas abandoned them. And even then it’s not about Teldrassil but about their own good. It never was about Teldrassil.
Nobody besides Saurfang regret Teldrassil, and he was the mastermind behind it all.
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Elfboy specifically states they had orders not to do it, but he praises you because he’s an insane vengeance baby.
Meanwhile, you’re specifically given quests to save civilians.
And? Whisps exist all the time. That doesn’t state that “they’re all specifically from when Ashenvale got its butt kicked.”
Lor’themar specifically comments on this, stating the obvious: People are afraid to act until they’re sure they’ll win, because they know exactly how Sylvanas will respond.
She mass murdered, mass damned, and mass enslaved the Horde at Lordaeron, after all.
As usual you let your bias paint your arguments, which makes you unworthy of speaking to on the subject.
Didn’t Malfurion own that guy anyways? Was it ever explained what happened to him after he got raised too or did they scrap that dumb plot
Yep.
I don’t remember other than that he was a zambino who wanted to kill more night elves.
I wonder if we have done the same quest, because in Ashenvale we can kill civilian or not, it wasn’t asked to save the civilians.
In Darkshore, it was to take prisonners, not saving civilians.
Not all maybe, but there was a massive amount of them coming from the slaughter of Astranaar.
On this one Dreadmoore is correct.
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https://wow.gamepedia.com/No_Small_Mercy
I will not slay innocents. If they do not raise arms against us, we shall spare them.
Enter Lor’danel and capture any civilians you find there. They shall be questioned and then released.
Come with us to safety. We will not harm you.
- Lor’danel Citizen says: [Common] An nud landowar me ador (It all happened so fast…)
- Lor’danel Citizen says: [Common] EloDerung ash bor nagan o goibon (Lor’danel did not stand a chance…)
- Lor’danel Citizen says: [Common] O lithos an wos ras mod Garde bur (I thought it was the end. Thank you!)
- Lor’danel Citizen says: [Common] O melka ne odes an bor nud bur Garde bur (I would be dead if not for you. Thank you.)
Astranaar is not a huge city to begin with.
As i said, it was to take prisonner.
I also remember the PTR of Darkshore where there was some sort of death camps with civilians tortured.
Easy to guess where they come from…
You can argue that they were removed at the release and you are right, but the fact that they were done in the first release of the PTR is telling.
I remember the Alliance side and there was a lot of whisps. The city was probably filled with few hundreds of civilians.