Beat me too it!
Sharding and phasing, mostly.
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In the past there was no sharding or phasing to prevent things from happening.
In the past there were no safety nets to protect players from getting ganked like toggled war-mode.
In the past the classes were unique and played very differently. Now every class is some sort of rogue, mage, warrior or warlock clone in some way. Every melee is now developed on a 1 of 3 templates, and casters follow much the same rules.
Now days special gimmick items have been either nerfed, removed, or made to simply not work outside of the “spirit” of the original developers intent…
In the past there was lots of room for creative game play; now days there is very little room for creative game play because the developers despise creative game play.
I take it what you want in an open world is pvp? I’ve never been into that, and I avoid it like the plague, because the only reason I go out into the open world is to level and/or farm stuff (a.k.a. do chores) so whatever gets me out of that mind-numbing tedious task the fastest is the best, meaning no pvp.
I always rolled pve servers, so effectively no different for me. I suppose I could empathize with people who like ganking, though.
The world is part of raid in Classic WoW. If you dislike world PVP then play on a PVE server.
Your point about this however is only valid concerning you and others who make the very present choice to exclude 50% of the game’s entire point being a conflict between the Horde and Alliance.
For those of us who do elect to play the entire game and not just half of it; world PVP is a big part of the game, and farming is a very common way that these battles start and escalate.
Yes. I’ve played on RP-PvP servers since TBC, and that is what I want. Open world, story-driven WPvP. Frankly I started raiding again in Legion because I lost what I enjoy most in this game.
how to combat the NoF? restart the whole server from scratch or make a new server. Apart from that? nothing, most servers just make a new server, or if they have 2 already they reset their first one.
I have this strong suspicion that pserver numbers are pretty far off… I raided in both classic and on pservers…. pservers were way easier… you can claim that raiders are better today and ill agree to an extent. Anyone who was serious back then was theory crafting just as much back then or even more… Not everyone was clueless back then…
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A lot of that is 1.12 talents, skills, and raid changes. MC was hard back when people were starting it… because people still had the garbage starting talents, garbage gear (going in full T0, no DM gear, etc.), and without any idea about a munchkin build. I remember my raid pugging a melee warlock with a firestone to MC; people did not know what they knew even half way through Vanilla.
That said, I’m not certain how accurate PServers are either, but I doubt they are that far off and that it’s not just 14 years of people min-maxing and having resources online.
They have confirmed the PServer numbers to be off.
Yeahhhh, your argument is already flawed here. Nobody or few people are expecting a BC or Wrath server. A lot of people in that thread are just hoping they become a thing eventually. I don’t see anyone expecting them which you’d have to be in order to have a reason for and quote “can’t wait for BC and Wrath servers”
People aren’t trolls for having a different opinion than you. It’s completely rational to be concerned about the longevity of Classic. All games need content updates to prevent a premature death. However, some people don’t understand that the point of legacy isn’t to progress beyond a certain point it’s meant to be a preservation project. Secondly, I really don’t see Blizzard adding new content to classic. I think if they were gonna go through that much effort to “add on” to it, they’d just release additional expansion locked servers and that I too hope happens one day, but I definitely don’t want classic to become expansion progressive. All expansion specific servers should be their own game…if it happens which there’s reason it could go both ways I’m kinda expecting expansions to not happen, but who knows.
Alright, the rest of your post is a whole lot of “what if” which we won’t have to worry about for several years yet.
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To be fair to those people, Blizzard hasn’t stated “the point of legacy” in such clear terms and defined the boundaries of what a “preservation project” would be.
Well, maybe. But I’ll worry if I want to, such as is my prerogative, whether I have to or not. On the other hand, however, if it is made clear in the beginning that there will not be any character transfers/copies/etc. to a future BC server then nobody will treat Classic servers as their preparation (with a ticking time clock) for BC launch. To contrast, if they announce they may, or probably, will allow character transfers to a new BC server that might or might not happen in the future – or if they say nothing for a year – then there will be at least a background ticking time clock that says how long your efforts have before they become irrelevant in the way it happens for every expansion. The announcement of server resets and something like seasons would be a similar ticking clock accomplishing the same sort of effect.
There’s no debate on that, it’s a fact and part of the reason I was never able to treat private servers like “real WoW”. I typically play for a couple hours and quit, maybe come back on rare occasion. You can look back on the first interview with the Nost team and also a little bit of what they’ve spoken about in podcasts too. I believe it was Nano? No…one of those guys recently explained how they were telling Blizzard about how they coded Onyxia’s breath and it turned out not only the timer was wrong, but the way it was coded too and those inaccuracies exist all throughout private servers. Another huge reason the code doesn’t work which isn’t their fault is because private servers have to emulate the hardware the game ran on too which causes a mess of issues on its own.
What separates Blizzard from just making a private server of their own and why this was such an undertaking for them is they’re making the game run natively and using their current architecture which unmodified Classic isn’t able to run on. Now the big plus here is they were able to get the actual 1.12 client up and running internally which is the real legit client using the data they had archived and consequently they were originally expecting to have some issues like spawn timers not being 1:1 and I’m sure exact data for damage, health, anything with a value attached to it which now isn’t the case because they have the actual 1.12 client to compare with the 1.12 assets they imported into their modern engine.
However, simply due to technological advancements and even just the very essence of life continually moving forward itself, it really is impossible to create a literal 1:1 carbon copy of classic unless you’ve got a time machine, but it’ll be damn close, closer than any private server would be capable of producing.
Also here’s the panel at Blizzcon where they discussed how they’re doing all this which is extremely interesting.
youtube(dot)com/watch?v=hhKkP8LryYM
I’ll give you that Blizzard hasn’t said what their plans are long term with Classic once it has ran dry of content, but that doesn’t change what in principal the point of legacy is defined as which is preservation. If they decide to not preserve classic and make it progressive either in expansion or modification then it no longer fits the definition of legacy unless they were to make a completely separate project for it and leave classic as is, but from everything they’ve said thus far it sounds like they’re trying to uphold to the concept of preservation. Again long term who knows it is Activision and we’ve all heard about the shady rumors. I’m a little concerned myself, but I think it’ll be fine.
Yea as I said above I don’t think a whole lot of people are expecting expansion progression to begin with, if they are they’re in a niche minority who are gonna approach classic that way which wouldn’t be smart anyway simply because there even being a possibility of expansions depends on the financial success of classic. But Blizzard was already hesitant to give us legacy because they didn’t want to run 2 MMO’s so that kinda drives down the possibility of expansions a bit even if classic is a mass success. I personally hope for expansions and I can think of ways it can be done while keeping each version of the game locked in time, but am I going into classic in preparation for expansions? Not at all. I don’t think most people are, I think they’re going into classic expecting to play classic and that’s about it until we’re all sitting on 1.12 content with our thumbs up our ***.
Anyway can worry as you like, I don’t think looking at it in such a light you are is very rational, but hey your enjoyment of classic is up to you man.
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In terms of a sense of progression, they did announce the 4-stages of buckets of content, time-gated without any sense (yet) of the overall ticking time clock for those releases, so there’s that. It intuits either an end (that could be a languishing perma-1.12ish foreverandever, amen, which is what I favor atm), or a transition-ish expansion to BC (even if Classic itself remains languishing, any transfers from Classic to BC effectively makes it an expansion imo), or perhaps a reset and “seasons” concept where everything is wiped clean and everyone starts over with a second (or third, or…) launch at level 1 and no accumulated wealth (save maybe for toon names, but not sure about that).
While I agree with you it’s probably premature to worry too much about what they’ll do, some sense of the time between the buckets and the time from launch to the fourth bucket would be enlightening to me, because it would give a sense of what Blizzard’s vision of the right pacing for that kind of progression.
In any case, it does seem there will be a ticking clock. While I think simple time gating is perhaps a clumsy way to do this, I would not mind so much if they dragged their feet and let the clock tick more-slowly rather than them trying to keep up with the insatiable appetites of the raid-or-die crowd. No matter how fast they release this content it won’t be fast enough for some people who want to gorge on it and then complain that they’re bored…
Even 10% off would be nothing. The mechanics are the same and the timers are basically the same; those are the important parts. I am curious to see how far DPS numbers are off, though.
There are a few fights where a 10% difference would be substantial. Vaelestrasz and Patchwerk, for example.
Maybe for progressing in a bad guild, but if you look at the good guilds who cleared on Pservers, they’re so far in excess of the dps req they could handle 100% increase and be just fine.
10% for scrub guild would probably mean a solid wall since they won’t get the gear required to carry themselves.
10% - depending on what it is - can absolutely be the difference between downing a boss, thus unlocking new gear and making it easier, and not downing a boss and continuing to be hard(er).
Patchwork and Vael - as mentioned - being a good example. Hell, Rag could be a difference if the FR isn’t there etc.
Having done 6/15 Naxx during actual Vanilla and fully clearing it on 3 separate private servers, there is only one argument to be made, and that is the race. Speed clearing. Getting better at what you’ve done. At some point, your beloved and dedicated toons need to be relegated to the trash bin, or at least a permanent server where everyone is equal-geared at the Naxx extreme and penultimate Rank 14.
Fresh servers and rerolls are what keep the feet dancing and the sense of urgency afloat. Every single person gets complacent at some point. Every single person wants community. If the community decreases to a point where the only option is to reroll and make a new toon on a fresh server where the best guilds are competing out the gate at level 1, people will follow.
It sucks. Losing toons you’ve dedicated years to. I’ve had numerous characters I loved that were thrown in the trash bin. I miss every single one of them, and I miss the friends I didn’t save to Discord or keep their cell numbers. I always end up making new friends and have new adventures.
What’s the point of constantly rerolling? Well, to play the game we love. No matter the cost, or the trouble. I’d happily pay $50/month to see my characters gone after 3 years of Naxxramas farming just to make a new one. I’m probably not the only person that feels this way.
Vanilla is a grind. It’s long and arduous journey. What Blizzard is offering is not Valhalla where we all end up getting drunk and having arm-wrestling contests for eternity in the throes of WSG. They are offering us a platform to play Vanilla. If it were to stay right at the top, at the end of progression, and ballpark number, 98.346% of players didn’t need 1 single piece of gear, you would see the inevitable decline of Vanilla. People would get bored of it. Even those that have never seen Naxxramas. Getting together 40 people or even say 60 people with 20 rotating, for 156 weeks / 3 years, would be lackluster. It would serve no purpose. There would be no need. Ok, maybe if you wanted to gear your 8th and final alt.
The only logical answer is to either progress, into BC, or to light a new candle, a fresh server, a dank meme. Since not all of us want BC, and some just want Vanilla perpetually, this serves that purpose. They can do this with BC, WOTLK, Cata, and as far as they want.
The amount of content in Vanilla is nearly endless. There is a lot to do. But if your only goal is to get big and bad, full T3 and R14, you’re missing out on the rest of the food at the table. There’s more to Vanilla than meat and potatoes. There’s twinking, world pvp, new classes you’d never have imagined to have played, new friends to make, friends to lose, enemies, tricks, professions, simple and majestic moments along the coast of Tanaris, fishing for Winter Squid.
Having done the R14 grind twice, and gone through Naxx, I will tell you that subjectively, what keeps me going, is kissing those characters goodbye, and starting new on the same playing field as everyone else. On a new Orc, or Troll, or Dwarf. A new anything. I know that all that I have ahead of me is a great journey. Not a daily chore of logging in parsing logs and ranking with some friends, or sitting on the rooftops of Darkshire ganking noobs.
I’d much rather start new every few years than sit on my Grand Marshal Claymore and rotate until it festered up and I left to go play water polo.
Just my 2 cents.
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