Narratively - What do you want for the Alliance?

It’s not so much as “Conflict” in general, than it is the flavor, application and context of it … Overwatch doesn’t quite have the same fantasy world with as many races spread across two large empire factions … Did you really think otherwise?

Arguing ‘Overwatch story’ towards WoW for the mere sake of its celebrated prospects is fine on paper, but in practice? It lacks depth — Especially within the Warcraft universe.

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I want everybody to be more vicious, resentful and racist.
Seeing people old enough to be set in their ways suddenly paling around with the very same people they were just crashing the lives of their loyal subjects against in pitched battle is hideous.

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The irony is that the fatal obstacle to WOW as Overwatch is the same evil Horde meme the poster has used as bait for trolls.

Either the both factions become good and noble (which would involve plot time for both factions) or the you have to tell half the player base we are making you characters villains 100% of the time. (I doubt the game would survive that, and even then it would be SWtOR not Overwatch.)

But this all ignores the fact that Blizzard already has Overwatch. They don’t need a second one. If they want an Overwatch style MMO, expanding that game would be far easier, and would actually work.

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This ignores you can’t have two Noble and Good Factions while also wanting a faction war. People need to pick one or the other for what they want to see going forward

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I didn’t adress that because it still is blocked by the “evil Horde” meme. Blizzard would still have to actually write for the Horde.

In principal, it could be good. But Blizzard seems unable to write faction conflict without it becoming a dumpster fire, let alone write with the kind of nuance needed to have two good factions fighting each other.

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I was mainly pointing it out because even with your The Old Republic example, yes you can play a evil republic char or a good sith, but the Republic are still objectively the good guys and the Sith are still the bad guys

Fantasy factions in MMOs that also have a faction war don’t work when both sides are the Good Guys. Fantasy relies heavily on a Us vs Them for things to work

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It has indeed usually relied on “them v. us”. I do think good writing could make it work. But I certain agree that Blizzard couldn’t do it.

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I think there was an opportunity for us to have “us v them” at the beginning of BFA with both sides being “good” from their own perspective.

But it needed to be the alliance engaging in some pattern recognition and being written to make serious military engagements against the Horde to prevent them getting the WMD analogy that was the original iteration of Azerite.

This puts the alliance as the aggressors, but not without good reasons, given the hordes entire history. It also puts the horde as the reactive force for once and gives them a very justifiable reason to continue fighting.

But we went with Shadowlands instead so… that ship has sailed I think.

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It’s more the urban dictionary term of what it’s become, definitely not so much its original meaning … But the over-democratizing writing of making everyone conveniently get along all the time, the virtue signalling and insistently shaming any conflict as the “wrong-think” to be condemned — and even depicting to have narratives of people who apologetically present themselves practically as deplorable bigots if they deported others (Belves to Helves) – even if for fair reasonsWell:grimacing: Sorry to say, whether you like it or not – But that exactly fits that term quite overwhelmingly.

Look :face_exhaling: Personally I don’t like the word or using it — because I find it’s cringey, overused and has ultimately become a lazy buzzword for random $#!% people simply don’t like, but when it walks like a duck and quacks like one … Yeah. lol

That said, you’ve got volumes of people on both political spectrums now - who usually can’t agree on anything, even on stuff like the fact that ‘water is wet’ — both coming together — and agreeing on these various story flaws, and it’s at that point you KNOW it’s bad. :joy:

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Oh, the story is bad. It HAD potential initially, but seriosuly, nobody asked for the questlines we been getting starting with the elven unification and the Dawnwell.

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If they rebuilt Eldre’Thalas and made it look how it looked in Chronicles, followed by giving the Night Elves the cosmetic-option to have the mouse over race-title as ‘Highborne’ should they please — would be phenomenal. :grin:

Sure the whole nature tree-hugger thing is great for those who enjoy it, but the Night Elves need more crunch again and giving them a separate segment of more magic-focussed, old traditions awakened deal – would be fantastic for providing it.

The Kal’dorei’s stance on the Arcane is rather biased and quite frankly - outdated at htis point … It’s not like druids aren’t incapable of corruption like mages can be either — we literally have ‘Druids of the Flame’ who once wanted to burn the world tree with Ragnaros and later another one with Fyrakk. Lmao

  • Additionally – If the Nightborne and Night Elves were to get along for any narrative → Restoring Eldre’Thalas and giving it some old Kal’dorei Empire vibes would be a GREAT bridge towards that narrative goal.

Ideally, you could bring back faction conflict between majors yet certain individual races of each side hold a better relationship than the rest. That way for future narratives you can have a “Team up” without entirely breaking the faction conflict status-quo.

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Nah, let the faction conflict die it ignoble end and let the two factions just merge once and for all. And maybe we can all stop trying to count scores on a a rigged board.

The factions need some sort of civil war that splits each in half. I think each having such a large cast that it ends up taking characters out of storiesthey could be in cuz another similar character on that faction was already present.

Blizz also needs to expand how many zones they introduce or modify in each expansion. Getting (4) each time with playground extras is getting stale. Why not give a zone or two with updated stories that have nothing to do with the main plot once in awhile.

I think what would make me a lot more interested in the alliance is in-fighting between characters who have points to make. I mean that’s what a lot of the alliance originally had? Jaina vs her father. Uther vs. Arthas. Crowley vs. Genn. That was what used to make for a more compelling story.

Now it’s all just “we don’t like da horde but we must take all their stuff I mean compromise with them.”

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Nah, the most compelling them about them is there are disagreements but they GET OVER IT and learn to deal with it because defeating the big bad is more important then the pettiness.

For just the Alliance without the Horde I would want three things that could be fairly easily adapted to the narrative.

  1. Replace the title of High King with Supreme Commander: I never liked the idea of a High King ruling over the entire Alliance. While having a Supreme Commander, a position that could by necessity change often and be voted on by the members of the Alliance gives more story options and fits with the overall theme of the Alliance better.
  2. The rise of sub-factions within the Alliance: There should be different viewpoints and ideas highlighted within the Alliance that could showcase the many differences of the Alliance. The Alliance has always had sub-factions (as has the Horde) but why not bring them into the spotlight to both flesh them out and to show them off.
  3. Less focus on one family at a time: I like the Wyrnn’s and the Windrunners but in an MMO story (in my opinion) more focus should be given to the overall factions efforts than one family an expansion.

As for what I would like to see regarding the Alliance narrative as it relates to the Horde. I want to have an Alliance character that is loyal to the Alliance and openly hostile to the Horde. It could be an established character or a new character but it needs to be a character that promotes aggression against the Horde while still being loyal to the Alliance. My preference would be to craft a new character, think a rising political figure who acts as a loyal opposition to the leadership of Stormwind, Ironforge, or the Night Elves and regards the Horde as untrustworthy at best or a threat to be removed. This character does not need to be evil but he or she does need to be shown as competent and at times right to be effective.

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Not really. They’re not supposed to be best friends. Some of them can like each other but some of them should hate each other’s guts. Making them one big happy family is the death of story conflict.

If the Alliance and the horde is supposed to have rich, believable stories full of intrigue, they need to have people who do not like each other within their own factions.

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In all seriousness, the same thing I want for the Horde.

Less focus on overarching stories, more small local problems being solved in a way that makes the locals seem reasonably competent, and development of likeable minor characters of diverse races and viewpoints who reoccur throughout the story rather than focusing on Five Dramatic Blondes.

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Personally, I’d love if they made Dire Maul North and East into one dungeon and added Dire Maul West to the Azeroth Map and make that and the normal “outside” part of Dire, the main areas for the Highborne/Night Elf Mages.

Their would still be room to have a Dire Maul Dungeon, but I just don’t think it needs to be split over 3 different wings. It could just be one dungeon, merging N and E together. Bosses I can think of would be:

Darkfallen Lethtendris, Naga boss, Twilight Blade boss/es, Satyr and perhaps a corrupted Dragon

It’s possible, but I don’t think that offers the Nightborne anything they don’t already have in Suramar.

I think you need to make the Shen’dralar stand out on their own merits. If you start inserting Nightborne or Blood Elf Magisters into this, then the tone about a restored Eldre’Thalas and it being a Highborne/Shen’dralar story feels diminished.

I kinda adore the idea that the most compelling narrative you can think of for the Alliance and Horde is to have them reduced to toddlers that fight over the same toy for an hour every day until they eventually figure out they can share, and we just do that every expansion forever.

It doesn’t speak highly of you as a consumer of media, but hey, marvel movies did big bucks at the office with kids so maybe there’s something to it.

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