20s can be full of clueless players as well, its just the natire of pugging
Around 14-15 is when mechanics start hurting a little bit though and the extra affix
But I think you can understand it’s a guideline and not meant to be so literal /sigh
I struggle with 18s way more often. People are bringing their 450 ilvl toons expecting to get carried, I really should be checking the groups more before joining. No sweat off my back, if we’re not getting the 12 crests, I’m out 
it’s usually 2-3 guildies and one of them is that item level. It’s really tiresome having to always be the person carrying.
When I do that, I make sure that I can carry the weight of both of us on my own.
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there are people doing questionable things all the way to +25 keys, in my experience. If you play in pugs you will run into bad players, its inevitable.
But the rage quitting happens less in higher keys. People there tend to have an understanding when keys are still timable, wont rage quit after 1 mistake
I got in a Rise with the healer ending the whole dungeon with 0 dispell and 1 crowd control (stun on a morchie player clone).
I’m not even joking that some 13s pugs are harder to heal than the average 20 pug.
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This week has been rough with the people I’m landing with as well…
I’ve noticed that when the affixs are unfavorable, good players take a break.
Being able to buy M+ runs doesn’t help with this either.
Yeah the rage quitting caught us all off guard because both times the key was still WELL within the timer. We didn’t even wipe, they just got mad and left.
The one in everbloom actually made me mad. The mage was upset she screwed up and died. She was the only one that died too, everyone else waited for the tank to gather and was fine. Then she just ruins the key for everyone because she can’t own her mistake. It’s so annoying
I find really only 14 and 15 are abnormally tough. You got the 2nd affix to contend with while being the upper end of non aspect crests dungeons which are just better to farm at 11-13 for better players. 16 starts aspects so you expect to see a big jump in quality of applicants there too.
But it’s no different than past seasons too. I distinctly remember in SL having alts farming +12 keys because it was the breakpoint giving the highest end of dungeon and vault piece for the effort with ideally jumping into +15’s once geared and a good enough IO to be a pick for pugs. +13 and +14 were the hell keys then.
What ilvl should they be for 18s lmfao?
There’s a wall in M+ where the hinderence of poor social skills outweighs average players game skill and toxic players collect there like a social grease trap.
Sounds like you hit it, networking is the easiest way to work past it.
Did a +8 DHT the other day with 38 deaths. Demon hunter couldn’t stop aggroing extra packs. Most players didn’t deal with incorporeal. Twice wiped on Xavius because if there’s one player left standing, two of those spawn.
The passed 7 AD 18-22 I have done, the totems have not died together and required a second or third round to get right.
People are forgetting basics
Players that dont want to, care to, or like running M+ are being pushed in because they want drops. Many would stay away if they had alterative activities to get said drops. Most of the head aches in mythic plus would go away with simply not locking stuff in M+ only