I think this is where the controversy is. Should classes have strengths and weaknesses like this? Most WoW players think balance means everyone performs identically in every situation.
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I think most people play to have a defensive tank, not to be a poor man’s lower end dps. The more defensive tanks also allow for the healer to more easily keep the DPS alive, allow for bigger pulls, etc.
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I’m tanking now in the 4-7 range. I would like to see a buff to self healing a bit. I should be able to survive a little bit more when the healer goes down. Other tanks can self heal and live longer. I think the orbs need some help.
The second issue is threat. I’m having a heck of a time keeping threat. I drop one keg smash and the zug zugs open up and peel. I’m now attempting to smash, statue, aoe taunt, smash again. This can work if I have back to back smashes but if I don’t, I’m chasing again. Can we make spinning crane kick have higher threat.
Getting and maintaining threat should be the least of my concerns.
how geared were your dps lmao
I mean if I’m pushing keys I’m playing to be a complete psycho. Playing defensive only gets you so far.
Brew is just in a weird spot where you go all in defensively, in which case your CD reliant and far weaker overall. Or you play all in offensively, in which case you can make mistakes and get gimped, but your more likely to survive pulls because they are far shorter.
Tank healing being nerfed was a kick in the face to brew, especially with how poor celstial brew is overall, but it’s not a be all end all. You have to learn when to actually just go out of your comfort zone to push.
As an update, I’m now around 2000 rating and doing 6/7s pretty regularly. Defensively, I still feel fine. My overall DTPS is around 380k for most dungeons, which is lower than a lot of the other tanks I’m seeing. RoP is great for Xalatath orbs, threat does not appear to be an issue (for me anyway), and I’m loving our mobility.
I will say, around +7 I’m starting to feel our damage fall behind the other tanks. On a big pull I’m doing maybe 1.2mil - 1.4mil DPS, but the Vengeance DH I’m running with has 3mil DPS pulls. I usually finish around 500k overall DPS and Vengeance finishes 850k overall DPS. I’ve seen a Prot Warrior do a 4.5mil DPS pull in a +9. Like holy CRAP are we behind on damage as people move up through the ilvls.
I’m starting to think Brew is the lowest damage tank. It didn’t feel that way in M0s a week ago, but it feels that way now that everyone is i617 and pumping.
Edit: Self healing is struggling but fine. I’ve hit 700-800k HPS on myself during some pulls. I’ve now killed TWO M+ bosses (a +5 and a +6) on my own from about 20% health. I can survive just fine. Most dungeons I do about 100% more healing to myself than my healer is doing to me.
Windwalker feels the same in aoe TBH, we start well with some burst, especially if you go conduit, but as far as sustained aoe goes you really start to see other specs pull ahead.
This is a Brew thread, so we shouldn’t de-rail it. But yeah, Windwalker AoE is trashcan. My raid ST is pretty competitive, I feel okayish in ST. Maybe B-tier. But my AoE in Mythic dungeons is WAY behind a lot of specs. I do maybe 1.4-1.7mil on a chonky AoE pull given I get a Dance of Chi-Ji proc or two. But I usually run with Aug/Arcane/Assassination on my Brew and let me tell you, THOSE guys do damage. My Arcane mage hits 3-4mil DPS on big pulls pretty frequently. We’re not even close. Not to count Havoc, Frost DK, Destro Lock and a bunch of other very strong AoE specs.
Windwalker AoE is very weak, sustained, and very RNG dependent. The one guaranteed Dance of Chi-Ji after WDP is insufficient to compete.
But, this is a brew thread.
So, as someone who only pugs, and is wanting to hit the 12ish range, would you recommend brew?
Focusing specifically on the pug aspect I would say brew will struggle a little more than other tanks.
Making pulls happen is more of a struggle on brew compared to other tanks due to things like no grips, no good range tagging, melee range interrupts, etc. This also shows it self on some bosses the 2nd boss in NW being a good example of how brew can struggle.
Does it mean brew cannot do 12s, of course not. It will just be more dependent on the group working together to facilitate these pulls and this is typically the bane of pug groups where communication is low, quality of players random and people are blasting the second you enter combat.
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Tanks have been and are more or less balanced, meaning the vast majority of people can play whichever tank they want and achieve their goals. Most of us don’t play at a level where class or spec matters.
Will some tanks be easier than others? Sure. The thing is, if you’re chasing which spec is best for x, y, and/or z, all it takes is one patch from Blizz and you’re choice is now borked. Pick the one you enjoy the most and learn how to play it properly and you won’t have much of an issue. Learn to look and see what you could do better, and accept you also aren’t responsible for other people playing badly.
No. Brew is arguably the most group-dependent tank in TWW. I feel heavily dependent on external healing, on ranged interrupts and on Aug evoker for pushing higher keys. I run with a static Brew - Rshaman - Arcane - Assassination - X comp, where we try to get an Aug for that 5th position. We’ve all been playing together for 10 years, we’re very coordinated. The rogue currently has a 97th percentile average Heroic parse. The Arcane currently has a 99th average Heroic parse. These are exceptional players. So when I say that I’m having zero problems on Brewmaster, I feel like that is important context.
I wouldn’t tank PuGs on Brew. People are too bad at the game. I’d want to tank on something that doesn’t need anyone in the group whatsoever, like a Blood DK.
I got about 3070 as Brew Season 4 of DF, which was 12-13, solely pugging. This was having only a little experience tanking in DF Season 3. These key ranges aren’t “high” by any means and people would still drop you for a FOTM tank. Brew is probably in a better state than it was then.
Not to beat this dead horse but unless you are trying to push the highest of keys play the tank you find has the greatest FUN factor. Don’t look at an opinionated FUN tier list for tanks, if you like having a large toolkit and being very mobile you will enjoy this class. Brew for me is fun, however others would find it frustrating. If you find a tank fun you will play it even when there is nothing in it for you, and that experience will create more success for you than playing a FOTM tank you find to be boring.
But also understand that this spec is feeling like an afterthought to blizzard and if DF is any indication Blizzard might pay more attention to the other tanks that are lagging behind Blood before remembering that Brew is a tank.
I’m just gonna say the range and radius of keg smash needs to be increased.
I’m so sick of it not going off while pulling mobs because you have to be kissing the target’s face to hit it.
I vote we scrap celestial brew and bring back the old school double charge guard - a reliable shield independent from purifying brew. That along side a buff to expel harm would be nice. But it wont happen lol.
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Maybe in minority but I like Celestial Brew. It works well when you know big hits are coming and it makes brew cd a little more interesting.
They need to give it a big buff though. With our low hp we need a way to insulate ourselves against the regular big hits that come in M+.
100% will take a buff to Expel Harm.
and the squishiest offensive tank doesn’t have great offensive, its all packed into weapons of order.