It’s better to think of it as a math problem. How many guilds should clear mythic per week for the first time? How long should the farm period be?
40 v 72 v 200 man raiding aside, are we thinking not enough guilds are getting cutting edge?
I’m not a fan of much of a farm period. I like having that one boss we still need to get down, and ideally, I’d like to get it down near the end of the tier, so there’s always that goal to pursue. I’m fine with the farming that occurs while clearing the bosses every week up to the one you’re working on.
Like many, I just got down Ashvane. 4/8 about halfway through the tier. I’m okay with this.
I imagine if I were in a guild that cleared the raid quickly and early, then just farmed it for gear for the rest of the tier, I’d grow quite bored. What’s the point of getting all that cool new gear if you don’t need it to clear the raid anyway?
That’s the thing. Difficulty is relative. Ashvane seems like a PITA, but I really only pug, so I’m likely stuck at 3/8.
It’s about averages, I guess it where I was going with that. No matter what the difficulty, there will always be a guild working on a boss when the tier ends, it’s just a matter of deciding (on average) how many guilds are ahead of that line.
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There’s nothing special about the heroic. Any pride in downing it is personal. Not trying to be a jerk here, but either heroic is the best you can hope for or it isn’t.
LFR would be better served as a solo scenario where the player does whatever but there is a full npc raid group that doesn’t need them. Just reward 1 non forged item from the branches full loot table at that ilvl and be done with it. It is intended to be story mode after all.
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Farm burns me out more than being stuck on a boss; and I think it bores everyone else, as that’s almost always been where my guilds die.
By guilds that had been practicing that exact speedrun for half a decade or more, using drops that had already received two years’ worth of buffs in patches that literally elevated much of it beyond what the raid tier originally dropped.
There are plenty of valid criticisms to level, to be fair. I wouldn’t especially appreciate the complex fights we have being replaced with dull gear checks and half the raid being AFK just to satisfy someone who’s bored with 5-boxing trivial dungeons.
And see the triple-boss in Nazjatar or Heroic Liadrin’s leech lulz for an example of why this would be an awful, awful model for top end content. Those fights aren’t especially complicated or even especially hard, but half your raid is people who will find a way to fail at anything.
I think this topic raises some very valid points. I didn’t start raiding mythic until BoD for various reasons, mainly that I was never in a a spot in life where I was willing to put in the time and commit to a weekly schedule until then, and it was also when I started to feel moreso that I had begun to master my spec. Ultimately the team I ended up on for BoD had to hold a lockout after mekkatorque on, and by the time we got to jaina after many weeks of no real progress we ended up giving up for the tier when people got burnt out and stopped logging. Admittedly it wasn’t the strongest raid team, but all of the players were well above average and far and beyond any heroic guild. At that point I felt like I had no really motivation or incentive to try and hop guilds just to come in for jaina to get CE, and it seemed like virtually none of the guilds apart from the very very best ever actually recleared the raid. This also means that it you are on the bench for first kills, and the reality like it or not is guilds NEED a bench, you are never getting CE for that tier.
Now in the current raid, as a healer it’s even less likely I’ll get CE even if my current guild manages to clear azshara because I know there’s no chance it’s ever being recleared. Even putting meta and balance issues aside it seems off to me that they want to make it that gruelling. At this point even as a decent player with good performance in raids my motivation to ever strive for CE is pretty darn low and I actually enjoy raiding.
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Guilds I’ve been in have always made it a point to kill the final boss twice to get CE for all core players. It’s a good policy.
And the former group is also a billion times less likely to feel invested in the game to be retained as a subscription month to month
But we’ll just conveniently ignore that fact while we super duper ultra mega double down on the “accessibility is king” train as retail flies off a cliff to its doom
I’m (not) looking forward to next expansion where mythic raid quality ‘catchup’ gear will be available from emissaries and dailies like heroic raid quality ‘catchup’ gear (benthic being the worst offender) exists now. At that point why does grouped content even exist in the game besides prestige ? This is the inevitable conclusion of blizzard’s delusion (hey that rhymes).
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That’s…an utterly nonsensical comparison. Their response to Xavius was to adjust how they tune their raids to account for titanforging, random sockets, and legendaries/azerite and artifacts/artifacts.
Ghuun and Jaina had almost the same number of kills between them, and of the 5 raids in Legion, 2 had ~4000 CEs, 2 had even fewer kills than Ghuun did, and 1 set a record for the number of clears before new content was released.
Ghuun was an annoying boss. That’s all. Not sure where you’re drawing all these strings of connection from.
Oh my God, no. KJ was an unbelievably difficult fight, both with tuning and mechanics. Ghuun just has the orb running. Like, really, not some world breaking mechanic.
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Virtually the point of his post. Mythic is overtuned, the vast majority of players don’t clear it, and that’s lame.
If only there were two other raid difficulties for premade organized groups in which the vast majority of decent players can clear it…
Now you want a third one ?
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Let’s think about this… you can go into heroic with a pug and half pay attention and lol your way to victory. Then the next step up is mythic where only the top 1% clear to the final boss.
Do you see the discrepancy?
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It isn’t overtuned if hundreds of guilds are clearing it. You can say it’s difficult, hard, demanding, etc., but overtuned is a mathematical condition that doesn’t apply when better raid groups are meeting the challenge.
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There is none. Mythic is the hardest difficulty for a reason. If you cant be content with raiding a whole tier and being 5/8 or whatever then you have some problems to address either within your raid group or within yourself. The only thing that makes a regular guild mythic team different than Method is how much time they put into the game. Method squishes all that time over the course of 2 weeks, most guilds spread it out over a month and a half. or 2 months. or the whole tier.
That’s… not the only difference.
You’re missing the whole point.
There will always be the Method’s that clear content. The point I was making is the difference in difficulty from heroic to mythic. Either heroic difficulty should be increased and mythic stays the same or mythic gets reduced and heroic stays the same. I prefer the ladder.
Right now, it looks something like:
Mythic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Heroic>Normal>LFR
What I’m pointing out is to bring it inline with the others:
Mythic>Heroic>Normal>LFR
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But that’s not remotely true. Mythic simply has a greater difference in difficulty among itself. The majority of mythic isn’t really that difficult at all, in most raids. Hell, in BoD every boss prior to Mekka was effectively a joke, and even Mekka and Blockade were just knowing where to stand and one long idiot check.
And mythic is nerfed over time. That’s very much a thing. So what’s the issue.
The only thing that makes mythic so much harder is that you can’t carry other peoples mistakes. There’s plenty of times where the same 2-3 offenders are why “progression” is still going on. I’m fine with allowing a skip if the last boss has already been cleared, but the difficulty doesn’t need to be adjusted any more than it already is.
Maybe I under-estimate my guild’s progress/success, but we recleared several times and I definitely don’t put the group I raid with in the category of the very, very best. I do think that with the annoyance of some bosses that reclears are more difficult than they used to be, and it sucks for guilds who have benches to get CE/mount attempts. My group follows very much this:
We do everything we can to ensure that any member of the core raid group gets their CE by a reclear even if it means something as awful as extending lockouts until we get it (looking at you G’huun).