Mythic raiding blows

[Vortimer-proudmoore]

@Stillaverage-area-52

its a terrible decision, but ive never actually heard him talk about it. what did he say was his reason?

I think the Interview with Maximum (Aug, 2022) discusses the lockout and fixed 20-man composition. There may be other interviews/statements, but this is what I could find.

@Blizzard

Accessibility and the barrier for entry in WoW; is the Mythic lockout an outdated mechanic?

Ion heard “so you want to do more splits.” Removing the rigid lockout could be good for some people, but at its core, Mythic raid difficulty isn’t meant for pugs. Some people will pug it, particularly late in a season/tier, but the lockout is an example of “healthy friction” in that joinng a Mythic raid is a bit of a commitment. The upside of locking is not auto-bailing on groups as soon as they start to struggle, encouraging stronger social bonds, even if it’s detrimental to people who are only there because they’re interested in quickly killing one boss. Normal and Heroic are inherently designed to be more flexible and pug friendly, but Mythic is less so.

@Blizzard

There are a lot more “required” classes in 20-player raids now, in order to account for all the varied raid buffs and utility, to the point where you have far fewer “open” slots available for players who don’t bring something specific.

The origins of “bring the player, not the class” was the extreme end of a spectrum where we had less raid buffs and more party buffs, making group compositions very complicated and resulting in situations where you had a good player that didn’t fit because you didn’t have room for another melee group to support them. Now they’re moving back to class representation, where they want the best groups to be ones which include all 12 (soon to be 13) classes - not having a single Warlock or a Hunter in a 20-player group should be a detriment even when Warlock or Hunter aren’t strictly the best ranged meta class. There are problems where something is individually too strong or exclusive however, and that’s where alternatives need to be added or greater representation needs to be addressed.

I thought I had read something that fixed 20-man is a single “tuning” point that is less work for the dev-team than a Flex-Size raid composition and also that Ion thinks the pinnacle challenge of WoW content should require an organized guild and not be accessible to PUGs (at least for progression and/or full clear). However, I couldn’t find that assertion (but didn’t look that hard either).

The Google AI summary includes these abstracts:

• Ion Hazzikostas, former Lead Game Designer and current Game Director of World of Warcraft, has discussed the 20-player limit for Mythic raids, primarily as a way to ensure all classes and specs can meaningfully contribute. He’s also emphasized the role of this limit as a “barrier of entry/friction” for Mythic raiding, separating it from the other, more flexible raid difficulties.
• Hazzikostas has stated that the 20-player limit helps facilitate the inclusion of various classes and specs in Mythic raids, allowing each to have a role to play.
• He views the 20-man limit as a way to create a more challenging and rewarding experience for Mythic raiding, separating it from the more casual, flexible modes.
• Hazzikostas acknowledges that maintaining a 20-player roster can be logistically challenging for guilds, but he also suggests that it can reveal fundamental issues within a guild’s structure if they cannot consistently assemble a 20-person team, as mentioned in a thread on Blizzard Forums.
• In essence, Hazzikostas has argued that the 20-man limit for Mythic raids serves multiple purposes, including ensuring a diverse and meaningful role for various classes, creating a challenging and rewarding experience, and potentially revealing weaknesses in a guild’s structure and logistics.