why are you side stepping this whole section of my post?
What should a player do in these situations?
thats what people will resort too. hosting and running with people they know are good.
does it show me why he left? maybe the guy ran into a few bad groups.
theres not enough information.
i clearly wouldnt invite him. no. ofcorse not. because he could have been a dick like you siad. but he could have been a victim of the what ifs i posted. or any other variable.
had to edit because i posted to early without completing the post.
- why would you stay in a group if the leader wants to bring an under geared friend? leave before it starts.
- you can look at a players spec history. why stay in a group if the tank is usually a dps?
- the inverse is true for the firemage. if the mage had everything needed to be invited and did that poorly, kick them with a 4 player vote.
- if the healer bought their IO, you can usually see that by looking a players key history. if they have only high keys done from the start, it’s very obvious. that said, people buying IO is a very small problem. while this is ancedotal, I have never had an issue with it. as I said though, it’s very obvious to see who has bought their rating without seeing their performance.
- then kick them.
- a dps refusing to target orbs is annoying, but it’s hardly a reason for the key to fail. generally speaking, I’m usually top damage on orbs… as the healer.
- then the group fails and everyone votes to quit the key. or the key just fails.
Forced to stay? No one is forcing you todo anything. If you join a group, you and you alone shouldn’t be the one to decide when it ends. And if you do want it to end, then you get flagged for leaving. If you don’t feel comfortable with a group, just leave before it starts.
You see, this puts the responsibility on everyone. Everyone is there trying to figure out if they should stay. how great is that? sounds awesome to me.
Instead, we have a group that puts all the pressure on the person hosing the key. I have had people get mad at me because of keys failing… like… it was my fault that I didn’t give a 2 hour long interview to every player before we started.
What a joke…
If people want to do keys, we should all just be in it together. Instead of people getting pissed off and dipping, maybe they’ll actually try and correct the situation.
I have had SOOO many keys fail that could have easily been completed in time if players just showed a bit of patience when something bad happens. I once had a mage leave on a FH at the 2nd boss because they died. They got targeted twice and and didn’t use a CD to live. They left. It was their fault. I could have ressed them and we still had plenty of time to finish… but nope. that one player has ALL the power and decided they were done.
If there was a way to avoid that, anyway, that would be awesome. I don’t think one player, who isn’t even hosting the content, should get to decide the outcome of the key for 4 other people. And if they do want to, then they get flagged.
Only thing I want, is a internal scoring system judging your performance that’s enabled upon hitting a certain threshold on key level and keys completed.
Considering Blizzard doesn’t play their own game enough to know what threshold should be put in place, I’d rather they just revamp the M+ system.
I think we are at a impasse in this conversation. we just both cant agree.
one final thing. if your suggestion where to come… it can be perceived as someone being forced to stay out of fear of getting flagged a leaver. Can we agree on that?
You really think people would be less choosy if the key didn’t downgrade? I don’t, though I do agree that it would be better if it stayed the same level of you missed the timer.
Forced to me sounds like you have no choice in the matter. if you join a group, the success of the group is on you as much as the person leading. if you are uncomfortable with the leader’s choices, then leave before committing. To that, every group is run for different reasons. Make sure you are on the same page as the person hosting. every now that’s still a good idea. if the group says they are there only for rating, then there is a good chance if the key is going badly, they’ll just quit it anyways.
Think of the inverse. the player leaving now is forcing 4 other people to stop the key. they have no choice in the matter. the choice is made by one player and the other 4 players just have to accept it.
If you want to say a player is forced for staying, then I’ll say the opposite is true now. the player leaving is forcing 4 other players to stop.
just like how the leader was fooled ( unwillingly or willingly ) so can i. a group might look good but you start to see the cracks once you go about the dungeon…
imo the person should be allowed to leave with out being stained… can we comet to a solution where thats possible?
There’s a lot that you can’t know before the run starts.
for sure. that’s the thing right now though. it’s only on the leader. the person can leave though if one other person agrees. If two people say “this key is going to fail, we should stop.” that’s really all it would take. If one person says “this is going to fail” and the entire group disagrees, why not keep going?
Think of it like this, if you join a group and are only there for rating, it’s usually pretty obvious if you’re going to fail or not. I have had plenty of higher keys come down to within seconds of completion or failing. I have also had plenty of keys get stopped because one player just thinks it’s going to fail.
On the other end, if you join a group and they say they are competing regardless, then you know right off that you need to invest for the 30 minutes or w/e for the key before you can leave. Sometimes, this is fine. I have done Junkyard plenty of times on my alt for the trinket. I stayed well past the expiration because I was there for the trinket and most of the group was as well.
I just don’t see how it’s any different than how it is now. right now, we have one player getting to decide what happens, shouldn’t that be on the group? seems extremely unfair to me that one player should get to dictate the experience for 4 other players.
for sure and that’s exactly what a group leader and 4 other people are dealing with right now. but instead of the group figuring out how to proceed, one player can leave the group and the other 4 people just have to deal with it.
why can’t the opposite be the case? why should one player have more power to decide what happens then 4? and again… the player can still leave. they just get marked down as a leave. I mean, this isn’t the end of the world for the player. if they do it rarely, it’s not even going to be an issue. If a player is constantly leaving… well, then yes, that would be a problem, for them. 
because that person might not agree with the rest of the team. might see something the team dosnt… and now there view points clash the person who dosnt want to continue leaves… with a stain…
can we find a way for that person not to be stained?
Because removing the voice from the minority of the group, even if it’s only 1 person is wrong.
Everyone knows the risks going in.
Sidebar, I’ve seen more threads about leavers than actual leavers, and I imagine I’m not the only one.
Edit forgot:
I’d rather 4 man the rest of the run than drag someone who doesn’t want to be there along.
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but isn’t that what happens when you have one player underperforming? not killing orbs, not interrupting, doing half the damage they should be, etc. or one player who is just a toxic mess?
right. but in your scenario, the person who gets the mark is the person who doesn’t want to carry the deadweight, or tolerate the toxic jerk, so you’re shuffling the power from one player to another.
the deadweight are never going to be the leavers. they probably know they’re awful.
in the end, I just don’t think we should be compelled to stay in a group (and for what it’s worth, I say this as a person who doesn’t leave groups).
I think we’d be better off reimagining the key system so they don’t downgrade, or they’re handled differently somehow.
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The down grade = having to run 2 dungeons over again vs only having to run one over. It’s a 30 + 30 minute penalty currently. I do think if it was one 1 redo it would loosen up people a tiny bitt.
im down for that. Simply change the random key to another dungeon as a punishment for not completing ontime?
Sadly then they could just fail the key over and over until they get the one they wanted again. Most wouldn’t but some do have some strong hate on certain dungeons.
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I would absolutely do this.
if I got a high tyrannical KR, and could nope on out of there and get a different key?
heck yes, I would.
out of all the situations thats not bad. The devs need to make the dungeons likable anyways.
I would rather them just sell 1 time use keys at a vender. They could pull it off if they locked out loot per dungeon/key level. Then we would all be free to run whatever we liked.
what does this mean?
i cant grasp it. im sorry for that.