Mythic Plus and the Joys of Hating your friends

The reason we have all this angst right now is because people are getting Hero-track gear, but can’t upgrade them to max. And that 4/6 “hole” they’re staring at is driving them nuts.

It would make more sense to me to:
Have Myth-track require Gilded and only Gilded.
Have Hero-track require Runed and only Runed.
Have Champ-track require Carved and only Carved.
Have Vet-track required Weathered and only Weathered.

The same place you got the item, is where you get the upgrade components.

Get rid of the overlap.

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that sounds like a bad move overall. you just call out mistakes if people don’t apologize and when they do you move on, they know what they did for next time and there’s nothing you can do about it now, eating people up over mistakes in keys isn’t good for timing xd.

It sounds like balance has finally reached parity.

AOTC guilds are no longer clocking in mythic vaults.

Agreed. But if an upgrade system exists, they should be able to upgrade their Hero-track pieces.

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It’s silly that champ gear upgraded with hero crests = hero gear upgraded with hero crests.

Not even a bit stronger, then this doesn’t hold true for hero gear upgraded with mythic crests cause mythic gear is stronger.

At least, be consistent?

I feel like in a few weeks it will level out and people will be back to timing 10s and 9s with relative ease. It’s just going to take more time for people to progress to that point overall with the changes they made (which it should honestly)

General public gear inflation already trivializes keys.

I am also not having fun and just stopped doing them.

We be playing together for years. The changes in the expectations for the keys has changed the dynamic to a less pleasurable endeavor

Honestly? They could do more to make the divide even more notable… As more people get over 615, the lower keys get trivialized… Soon 620 will be the new minimum ilvl, and with 2,500 IO being required just to filter out the KSM carries - as it always turns out…

I have started tanking keys once again - the last time I really tanked was from ~July 2005 to about December 2020… And, whilst getting into keys is noticeably easier - it shouldn’t be… Rather we need even more stringent divides to counter the constant ilvl and carry creep… I would restrict Gilded to 11+, but that’s just me personally…

In a fortnight, 619 won’t even be much of an issue, as more people are able to start queueing those +9’s for their tokens…

Dear Blizzard,

I wanted to follow up on my original email and provide some insight into my experiences, as well as my guild’s, in The War Within. I decided to respond to my original post to offer a bit of a template for this response. Although I feel like you’ve addressed some of the potential issues I had warned about, all is still not well.

First off, the Mythic+ squish has really penalized about 45% of my guild. They eagerly jumped into keys this season, only to promptly jump out. A few returned with the changes to the Crest system, but the bulk have not. Due to the difficulty of the keys, the diminished gear opportunities, and the limited options to upgrade, a large portion of my guild is now raid-logging and stuck at a low item level. The five or so players I have who are still doing 10+ keys are now about 14 item levels ahead of the others.

My peak performers (plus 10 keys), as I like to call them, really feel like they are carrying the raid more than they ever have, and my underperformers are more demoralized than ever. The divide in gearing has grown even further in this expansion, further illustrating the disparity in performance. Moreover, my peak performers used to run keys with the underperformers because they wanted to help—and often, the currency incentive was there. But now, trying to carry them through an 8 or even a 9 would not be a pleasant experience. The kicks, stops, DPS checks, and lack of these players not using their defensives would leave our underperformers consistently dying at best, or bricking the key at worst.

What you don’t realize is that my peak performers used keys to build relationships with my underperformers. You’ve eliminated that option for the most part. You were too focused on the logical side of things: nerfing the loot in Mythic+ and assuming that the LFR stacks of Determination would replace our need for loot to progress. However, you overlooked the relationship aspect of key running. In raid, a player can hide and never have to interact or even speak to others. But in Mythic+, players get to know each other a bit more, with chatter before and after the key. Guildmates form bonds. In the past, the best players and worst players were still able to intermingle during key runs. Sure, there were limitations, but not like you have created this tier.

Raising loot requirements while simultaneously demoting loot and eliminating a range of key difficulties has really expanded the void of interaction between my players. Sadly, my good players are now ready to be done with raiding because they feel the other players aren’t pulling their weight. These aren’t new players—they are the same players we’ve had for 8 years. But now, they’re a problem because they can’t gear, can’t do high-level Mythic+, and are no longer able to interact socially through content. I know you wanted delves to fix this and maybe it did at the beginning of the season, but most players outgrew them and their offerings.

People play this game to be social, and this experience has only deepened the divide. Our guild will reach its goals, but we won’t be moving forward with everyone (lost 4 players so far). Raid loggers eventually become no loggers. I think a lot of guilds are built around Mythic+ gearing and the ability to help your friends reach their goals through content while assisting the guild in their tier goals. There were no high fives exchanged for earning another stack of Determination.

Please consider this feedback for the next tier.

Signed,
Hanging on by a thread

I will agree there is a small amount of friction when running keys with friends. Everyone is at different skill levels and everyone has different M+ goals, so inevitably some people will be left out. It doesn’t feel good to be on either side of that.